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The Misinformant 12-25-2005 10:55 PM

Tank Guards
 
I have bee following this thread in the crush forum for a while

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107398

and am wondering if any one has made their own gaurds for a 640 ADV.

I have checked the index but no one seems to have followind this through to completion yet.

It seems that you really cant get good bolt on crash bars for a pre 04 ADV and I want something to look after the tank/fuel cock areas.

It seems like it might be an interresting after Christmas project.

:D

bmwktmbill 12-26-2005 08:07 PM

Misin,
I am with you 100%. Silly not to make something up. I was thinking about welding up a form fitting aluminum partial shell out of sheet aluminum and glueing it to the tank. There could be a tab that protects the petcock.
Can you weld aluminum?
Bill in Tomahawk, Wisconsin.

meat popsicle 12-26-2005 08:43 PM

That is an Orange Crush thread, but I'll take a gander sometime. There are similar threads on the 640a specifically, did you see them? They are of course indexed, but noone has completed the project as I understand it. BigTwin put his method in the one thread, so any DIY fella with some skillz should be able to give it a go. :deal

The best petcock protection appears to be the rallye skidplate boxes, which is a separate project. I suppose the best of both worlds would be to have CF/Kevlar tank guards and rallye skidplate boxes. My idea of complete protection. The 640a tank is damn tough, according to a few testimonies. Mine cracked, but it took a pickup truck broadsiding me to do that... The CF provides some structural rigidity to the guards and the Kevlar provides abrasion resistance; together they are supposedly a great combo and should augment the tank's inherent strength and may help out in quite a few situations. The rallye skidplate boxes will protect the petcock and the engine, perhaps your feet a bit as well.

Looking forward to your results. :lurk

creeper 12-26-2005 09:21 PM

Funny this comes up...

I received a PM from KTMtalk member "Chrisbarnes1" today. He just finished making his first set of glue-on CF tank protectors.
I think he did a pretty nice job... my only comment being that he should consider extending the left one down to protect the petcock.
I suggested he post his images here and do a write-up of the materials used along with an install overview.

I don't have the slightest clue if he intends to make any more sets... but I bet he might consider it if someone talked to him in sweet and gentle tones.

Personally, I think tank protectors on a 640 ADV are of limited value... but I've never let someone elses opinion stop me from doing odd stuff, like drilling a bigass hole in my fairing for example.

http://216.165.194.66/ktmtalk/photog...ctors_005a.jpg

http://216.165.194.66/ktmtalk/photog...ctors_002a.jpg

That's it... Happy New Year,
Creep

The Misinformant 12-27-2005 03:27 PM

Creeper,

That is the kind of way I am leaning but with a bit more coverage onto the sides. Bit of a hybrid between the Chrisbarnes and the uberbling Japanese ones that were floating around.

Probably will go with a CF and Kevlar lay up with a bit of re-inforcing arounfd the pet cock. The idea is to have the gaurd go around/ under the cock towards the lower edge and under the tank.

I have a contact in the aviation repair game were I can get cheap resins and good intel.

:deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal :deal

Chrisbarnes1 12-30-2005 03:59 AM

640 Adv tank protectors
 
Finally joined--my pics preceed me! I'm going to have another go with moulds that allow more "sculpting" on the side instead of a straight line--and also to incorporate a petcock protector (although its easy enough to provide a basic shield its not going to be easy to provide both side access and a reasonable degree of stiffness to take a knock--we'll see how it turns out. I'm going to use a carbon/kevlar cross weave this time.

CB

meat popsicle 12-30-2005 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisbarnes1
Finally joined--my pics preceed me! I'm going to have another go with moulds that allow more "sculpting" on the side instead of a straight line--and also to incorporate a petcock protector (although its easy enough to provide a basic shield its not going to be easy to provide both side access and a reasonable degree of stiffness to take a knock--we'll see how it turns out. I'm going to use a carbon/kevlar cross weave this time.

CB

Welcome, although your early association with creeper might be difficult to overcome... :doh

There are some extensive threads on this indexed that perhaps might have a tidbit or two for you in your design process. But then again maybe not; you are further along than any other 640a monkey.

They look good so far, many would want them to extend far enough back to protect the entire side of the tank in a low side slide. I would want them to curl around and attach to the hardware on the inside (front only unfortunately) and parhaps mould around other parts ("snap on"?) for better fastening.

The petcock protection might be a 'pie in the sky' if you know the phrase; some have discussed using an aluminum reinforcement loop to allow for non-stop switching. But the best petcock protection is likely the rallye skidplate boxes.

This stuff and maybe more in those threads. :wave

Loadedagain 12-30-2005 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Welcome, although your early association with creeper might be difficult to overcome... :doh

But then again maybe not; you are further along than any other 640a monkey.

The petcock protection might be a 'pie in the sky' if you know the phrase; some have discussed using an aluminum reinforcement loop to allow for non-stop switching. But the best petcock protection is likely the rallye skidplate boxes.

bah... creeper isn't that bad... only half as bad as me for example.

you callin me a monkey? i have had a set of carbon/kevlar tank guards for 2 years! also had a set of the jap ones in my hands, then onto an 05 belonging to a friend.

the ones i made have no petcock protection. i felt the protection was not worth the pain when switching to reserve at 75mph on the interstate. with the jap ones it's impossible. with mine it is easy, and i've never dropped below 65mph while running outa gas on the freeway. (lets not discuss my problem with running outa gas on a bike with 24 litres).

here's the jap ones on kellys bike:

http://loadedagain.smugmug.com/photos/28781890-M.jpg

Loadedagain 12-30-2005 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Misinformant
Probably will go with a CF and Kevlar lay up with a bit of re-inforcing arounfd the pet cock. The idea is to have the gaurd go around/ under the cock towards the lower edge and under the tank.

I have a contact in the aviation repair game were I can get cheap resins and good intel.

as i mentioned above i would stay clear of the petcock protection unless you can figure a way of maybe building out in front of it without impeding easy access.

for most of my layups i use west systems epoxy resin. you may want to try them out. very nice stuff. i've always used their slow hardener since time of cure is not a concern and the extra time to layup is nice. their web site: http://www.westsystem.com/

often the fibre material you use is not as critical as the matrix. for example i would stay clear of polyesters... especially with hand layups. they cure very quickly, and you will likely have too much matrix for the amount of fibre. if you are using a polyester i'd set it off real cool, and vacuum bag the bitch!

probably the best way to do guards at home is with about a dozen layers of carbon, maybe a few kevlar outer layers for abrasion, use an epoxy like west system, and vacuum bag it. you will end up with a real nice part.

if you don't have a vacuum pump you can rifle through the junk yard for an old fridge and steal the compressor outa it. makes for a really great little vac unit.

meat popsicle 12-30-2005 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadedagain
bah... creeper isn't that bad... only half as bad as me for example.

you callin me a monkey? i have had a set of carbon/kevlar tank guards for 2 years! also had a set of the jap ones in my hands, then onto an 05 belonging to a friend.

the ones i made have no petcock protection. i felt the protection was not worth the pain when switching to reserve at 75mph on the interstate. with the jap ones it's impossible. with mine it is easy, and i've never dropped below 65mph while running outa gas on the freeway. (lets not discuss my problem with running outa gas on a bike with 24 litres).

...

yeah, its a good thing for his rep he didn't associate with you right off the bat! :arg

we are all monkeys, some a lil' more mischevious than others - like you for example; building guards and (as I recall) never posting any info in the discussion threads! :bluduh

now about your problem of running out of gas... nah, nevermind.

The Misinformant 12-30-2005 04:56 PM

I am looking at forming a kind of loop that goes under the pet cock to continue the gaurds to about 1/2 way along the bottom of the lower side of the tank and running all the way up the front of the tank to the bottom of the fairing as it gets a punding on high speed gravel roads all the time.. The intention is to leave an opening to be able to still turn the cock reasonably easily. I may even put in a small brace made out of 30thou aluminium just to help with the moulding around the pet cock.

Probably be about 3-4 layers of a twill or satin weave carbon HM cloth with 3-4 layers on top of a twill or satin weave kevlar 49. (These weaves are more drapeable and easier to use on the complex curves on the lower edges of the tank.)

This should give good impact and strength with good abrasion resistance.

It wil be an epoxy matrix as I have found an aviation source that flogs off their out of date pre-mixed stuff. Hopefully it will have the right properties for the application.

I may also use some additive on the finish coat like aluminium dust for UV protection as we get an aweful lot of it here in Southern OZ. (Bedliner if desperate-bling is nice, practical is essential).

It all dependes on how hard it will be to get materials to where I live.

I just got to get a chance in the new year to get to my aviation guys place and have a chat.

If all else fails there is a West SYstems dealer in OZ who is a boat builder who is a source for materials if need be.
:thumb

If this all goes really well I might have a look at some other stuff after like panniers (sandwich construction) and if real keen a rally skid plate.

mars 12-30-2005 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadedagain
as i mentioned above i would stay clear of the petcock protection unless you can figure a way of maybe building out in front of it without impeding easy access.

for most of my layups i use west systems epoxy resin. you may want to try them out. very nice stuff. i've always used their slow hardener since time of cure is not a concern and the extra time to layup is nice. their web site: http://www.westsystem.com/

often the fibre material you use is not as critical as the matrix. for example i would stay clear of polyesters... especially with hand layups. they cure very quickly, and you will likely have too much matrix for the amount of fibre. if you are using a polyester i'd set it off real cool, and vacuum bag the bitch!

probably the best way to do guards at home is with about a dozen layers of carbon, maybe a few kevlar outer layers for abrasion, use an epoxy like west system, and vacuum bag it. you will end up with a real nice part.

if you don't have a vacuum pump you can rifle through the junk yard for an old fridge and steal the compressor outa it. makes for a really great little vac unit.

i want a set without the petcock protection. i did talk with a friend in Boise that droped his 02 from a standstill and broke the tank. the cross bar that holds the rubber front mounts went right through the side with a moderate lateral impact.

Chrisbarnes1 01-01-2006 12:15 PM

Adv 640 tank protectors
 
Many thanks guys for all the response. It does seem that I'm heading down a well trodden path. At the end of the day the only real protection is going to come from decent crash bar protection--but I've had a look at the frame and it wouldn't be easy to generate something that won't fold back into the tank on impact--has anyone done this?

I think that if the carbon guards are siliconed into position, and they wrap round the front of the tank a bit, they won't come off in a mild impact and the silicone will provide a good buffer to allow a bit of flex--I reckon three layers should be adequate--but we'll see. My "mark 2s" will wrap round more on the LHS for stiffness for the petcock protection extension. I also intend to provide enough of a cut out to operate the tap when on the move--I get about a mile from the reserve light flashing to actually running out--quite accurate! --its going to be a compromise--and its effectiveness is something I hope I don't test!

I'm sticking with polyester and will use teflon coated peel wrap for the inner finish--so far I don't have a wetting problem with polyester--and you don't want to be too cold otherwise it can affect the curing process. I tend to precut all my sheets and work quickly!

I'll post pics when finished--mine will go higher than the Jap version and will also have some styling curves to the side--they will go back to at least the first tank hole--going back much further isn't worth it as the tank sides drop away--I started the moulds with a crash damaged tank from a friend so you get a good idea of what hits.

One final comment--the only way the petcock is going to get it is if you bounce on a rock or it hits a rock when sliding on its side--does this happen?

The Dakar has started--all the KTM 660s don't seem to carry any side protection?:clap

rjf 01-04-2006 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Misinformant
in Southern OZ.:thumb

a rally skid plate.

woo hoo ! a ozzie that might be making tank guards !

I'm in need of tank protection too, are you thinking of making a few extra sets for sale ?

Need a tester ? I've managed to lose the front at low speed on gravel twice now ! :doh

Chrisbarnes1 01-04-2006 10:37 AM

640 Adventure tank guards
 
I could make a few--but they need customer approval first--request to drop bike on both sides to order noted.
CB:clap


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