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-   -   Fork Oil and Suspension Questions.... (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164375)

laramie LC4 09-05-2006 04:31 PM

Fork Oil and Suspension Questions....
 
was doing some things on the LC4 the past few days and decided to check the oil level in my forks. i already had the fork out due to a steering bearing inspection so it only took a sec to check. i know my seals had been leaking over the past few weeks. they had a rough trip of 2000+ miles tied down on the trailer with the forks compressed so i wanted to make sure that my level wasnt low due to loss.

to say the least i was shocked when i saw the results. not so much the oil level but the condition of the oil.

http://216.165.194.66/ktmtalk/photog...lipboard01.jpg

this is a side by side comparision of the old oil and some new oil. i had no idea that fork oil could get so nasty! this oil has roughly 1 years worth of riding on it since it was last changed. granted a lot of it was wet and nasty, but i still dont think the oil should be that bad.

is this a sign of a problem with my seals? or something else?

either way, id recommend you check your oil soon.....

thanks,

laramie <!--emo&:cheers:-->

drdave_2006 09-05-2006 04:40 PM

Oil does not last forever. On my bmw it suggested changing the fork oil every 14k. In your hand book it should have something in there about changing it every year. Lots of hard riding would need to be done earlier. Gets hot just like engine oil. Thats what i think. See what other suggest as well.

laramie LC4 09-05-2006 04:40 PM

oops, now for the suspension questions,

1) how do you guys torque the valves on the bottom of the forks to 25nm? i got one by slightly pulling down on the piston but the other fork just spins. i dont want to bend the piston trying to torque the valve.

2) when measuring the fork oil level, you measure 25mm from the top of the "4 holes", or roughly 35mm from the top of the outer tube?

3) when reinstalling the springs, what is the trick to getting the rebound cap back on. i remember this being a bitch the last time i changed the oil and dont remember how i got around it.

thanks, im having some issues and want to ride tomorrow so your help is appreciated. ive done this before but im frankly not to sure if i did the measurements correct. i wanted to stiffen the front so i added an additional 10mm on the last service. my problem is i think i measured from the top of the fork because when i checked the level today i was way over.


laramie :beer

Stobie 09-05-2006 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laramie LC4
oops, now for the suspension questions,

1) how do you guys torque the valves on the bottom of the forks to 25nm? i got one by slightly pulling down on the piston but the other fork just spins. i dont want to bend the piston trying to torque the valve.

2) when measuring the fork oil level, you measure 25mm from the top of the "4 holes", or roughly 35mm from the top of the outer tube?

3) when reinstalling the springs, what is the trick to getting the rebound cap back on. i remember this being a bitch the last time i changed the oil and dont remember how i got around it.

thanks, im having some issues and want to ride tomorrow so your help is appreciated. ive done this before but im frankly not to sure if i did the measurements correct. i wanted to stiffen the front so i added an additional 10mm on the last service. my problem is i think i measured from the top of the fork because when i checked the level today i was way over.




laramie :beer


1) With the caps off and the springs out, you can put a little side pressure on the damper assembly at the top, which will wedge it in place and let you torque the base valve (this is right out of the fork manual). Or, but the spring in and the cap back on, flip the fork upside down, put the axle through the bottom lug to use as a handle, and push down on the fork while you tighten. The spring tension will hold everything in place. I put a socket on the fork cap (I think it's a 24?) to protect the rebound knob.

2) Measure the fork oil level from the top of the inner fork tube. I'm not sure what the standard level is for the 43's, but I'm thinking 150mm from the top.

3) I hold the spring buffer by sticking my finger through the spring, then turning the spring like a bolt, so my finger lifts the spring buffer up to the where I can grab the top of the damper assembly.

I hope that made sense.:scratch

laramie LC4 09-05-2006 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stobie
1)Or, but the spring in and the cap back on, flip the fork upside down, put the axle through the bottom lug to use as a handle, and push down on the fork while you tighten. The spring tension will hold everything in place. I put a socket on the fork cap (I think it's a 24?) to protect the rebound knob.

can you do this once the fork is back in the triple clamps and everything is back together?

Quote:

2) Measure the fork oil level from the top of the inner fork tube. I'm not sure what the standard level is for the 43's, but I'm thinking 150mm from the top.
from the WP manual, "Now compress the piston-rod and outer-tube fully down, and fill the forkleg with oil till about 25mm under the 4 holes of the inner-tube. Move the piston-rod and the outer-tube at the same time several times up and down over the entire stroke. Push the piston-rod and outer-tube fully down and adjust the oil level (airchamber) with T137S."

so its definetly not 150mm, i just wish they would make this easy and say, " its this far down from the top of tube. whats this 4 holes down crap? can you measure the 2 and give us a real, useful number? :baldy


Quote:

3) I hold the spring buffer by sticking my finger through the spring, then turning the spring like a bolt, so my finger lifts the spring buffer up to the where I can grab the top of the damper assembly.
even with the inner piston fully extended it doesnt come close to reaching the top of the spring. id have to reach down, between the coils and grab it, and then getting the cap on would require me compressing the springs considerably which always causes the inner tube to fall back in. its kinda like chasing your tail. plus i dont know how small your hands/fingers are, but mine dont fit and then cover them with fork oil and its a lost cause.....:flush

thanks for the input, ill keep trying but its not looking good for tomorrow.


laramie :beer

meat popsicle 09-05-2006 09:00 PM

If you still have questions, there are some OLD WP repair manuals in my Yahoo Briefcase (indexed) that might have some tips for assembly. More likely they just note some custom tool that is required... :doh

Stobie 09-06-2006 06:17 AM

Laramie,

I got an email notice that you had more questions, but I couldn't get back on the site for some reason. Had I thought about it, I would have PM'd you through KTMtalk.

Quote:

can you do this once the fork is back in the triple clamps and everything is back together?
Run a tie-down from one side of the handlebar, through the wheel, then to the other side of the handlebar, and cinch it down to compress the forks a little.

Quote:

from the WP manual, "Now compress the piston-rod and outer-tube fully down, and fill the forkleg with oil till about 25mm under the 4 holes of the inner-tube. Move the piston-rod and the outer-tube at the same time several times up and down over the entire stroke.
This is just the initial fill-and-purge. The "25mm under the 4 holes" thing just gives you enough oil in the fork to do the second step, "Move the piston-rod and the outer-tube at the same time...", which just purges all the air from the damper assembly.

The next step,

Quote:

Push the piston-rod and outer-tube fully down and adjust the oil level (airchamber) with T137S.
is where you set the oil level to 150mm or whatever. The stock level is listed in your owner's manual, in a table toward the back where all the stock suspension settings are listed. I don't have it in front of me, but I think they actually call it "Fork Oil Level", and it's measured from the top of the inner tube, although they don't tell you that part. For my bike with the 48's, it's 120mm.

Quote:

even with the inner piston fully extended it doesnt come close to reaching the top of the spring
Are these the stock springs? It sounds like they are too long. If the piston rod doesn't come close to reaching the top of the spring, you're putting hella preload on the spring when you re-install the fork cap. Preload numbers are usually in the mid-single digit millimeters. If the springs are what you typically find for the USD 43's, they are the 520mm long springs used in the RFS bikes. The LC4's have less travel in the front and use shorter springs (485mm for the 48's).

Sorry I couldn't get back to you last night. I hope you get to ride today.

laramie LC4 09-06-2006 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stobie
Laramie,


Sorry I couldn't get back to you last night. I hope you get to ride today.

thanks for your help man, i really appreciate it. ive read the manual multiple times and its as clear as mud. i dont know who they pay to write these things but they suck!

the 25mm and the "air chamber" is what was really throwing me. it didnt seem to make any since, and the measurements seemed all wrong. im glad i stopped for the night because i would have done it wrong again and would be starting all over again this morning.

as for the ride today, probably not :( i wanted to get out while the remnants of hurricane john were still around and keeping the dez cool. yesterday the high was only 83, today is 93, tomorrow probably back to 103. but hey, im a gigolo so every day is free and open for me so im sure ill find some time one day this week.

thnaks again, ill go try and find that info in the maual and see what it says.

laters,

laramie :beer

laramie LC4 09-06-2006 11:33 AM

hallelujah !!!!! praise jesus !!!!

i finally got everything back together and installed on the bike. this job wouldnt be nearly as difficult if the OEM manuals were worth a shit! why would you put assembly instructions in one place, then put the settings somewhere completely different? why not put them both together?

anyways, i took a bunch of photo's and i think i'll do a photo write up of the procedure. like i said its not that bad once ya know the tricks. i checked the BLEEPING THREAD, and read all of the posts but they are still pretty vague. hopefully this will help save everyone some time..

thanks again for the help.

laramie :beer

meat popsicle 09-06-2006 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laramie LC4
...

anyways, i took a bunch of photo's and i think i'll do a photo write up of the procedure. like i said its not that bad once ya know the tricks. i checked the BLEEPING THREAD ...

How-to service your forks?
:lurk

creeper 09-06-2006 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laramie LC4
anyways, i took a bunch of photo's and i think i'll do a photo write up of the procedure. like i said its not that bad once ya know the tricks. i checked the BLEEPING THREAD, and read all of the posts but they are still pretty vague. hopefully this will help save everyone some time..

thanks again for the help.

laramie :beer

Let me know if you need any help with the format/construction/editing... I've got a small bit of experience writing stuff like that. :D

laramie LC4 09-06-2006 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat popsicle
How-to service your forks?
:lurk

ya, if thats not a problem? :D

creeper,

ya, i dont even think i could compete with the master....:lol3

i'll load the photo's and see if i can have something put together by tonight.

laters,

laramie :beer

creeper 09-06-2006 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laramie LC4
ya, if thats not a problem? :D

creeper,

ya, i dont even think i could compete with the master....:lol3

i'll load the photo's and see if i can have something put together by tonight.

laters,

laramie :beer

Send it to me when you've got something you'd like to hang your hat on... I'll hack it up good fer ya. :evil

PackMule 09-06-2006 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laramie LC4
i'll load the photo's and see if i can have something put together by tonight.

laters,

laramie :beer


:lurk :lurk Timely, since I need to change the fork fluid on my RXC, and reset the levels to baseline so I can adjust the susp.to my liking (no idea where they're at now, as the bike is new to me -- forks are very harsh, though). :freaky

meat popsicle 09-06-2006 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeper
Send it to me when you've got something you'd like to hang your hat on... I'll hack it up good fer ya. :evil

He's mean laramie, but fair.
I highly recommend you take him up on the offer.

Oh, some good shop feedback from Zerodog for you.


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