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-   -   This can't be good. (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184573)

bemiiten 11-26-2006 07:45 PM

This can't be good.
 
At 55k, My '00 GS has it's first major problem. Seems to be coming from the transmission. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CShKkyGnLGY
The noise disappears soon as the clutch is pulled in. Rolling in neutral with clutch out reving the motor will not make the grinding sound worse. Sounds a little rocky in neutral ,but soon as it's under a slight load all hell brakes loose with a nasty rhythmic rumble/grinding sound. Trans shifts perfect. Oil is new & full. Sounds too bad to be the push rod bearing.
Anyone had a similar experience with a oil head 6 speed? I'm tearing into it to check the driveshaft first . Let you all know what I find.

JimVonBaden 11-26-2006 07:59 PM

Yikes, that doesn't sound right at all. Way more than the typical rumble at idle.

Just off the cuff, it sounds like a clutch plate comming apart. But it is hard to say.

Jim :brow

Ricardo Kuhn 11-26-2006 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bemiiten
At 55k, My '00 GS has it's first major problem. Seems to be coming from the transmission. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CShKkyGnLGY
The noise disappears soon as the clutch is pulled in. Rolling in neutral with clutch out reving the motor will not make the grinding sound worse. Sounds a little rocky in neutral ,but soon as it's under a slight load all hell brakes loose with a nasty rhythmic rumble/grinding sound. Trans shifts perfect. Oil is new & full. Sounds too bad to be the push rod bearing.
Anyone had a similar experience with a oil head 6 speed? I'm tearing into it to check the driveshaft first . Let you all know what I find.

I'm pretty sure you problem is do to the rivets on the clutch making contact with the other two plates

If the problem was on the shaft you will still ear similar sounds since the shaft never stops rotating.

bemiiten 11-27-2006 07:39 PM

Managed to dig a little deeper tonight.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0329.jpg
Bummer,It's not a bad u joint. To easy. :D Really don't think it's a clutch problem either. The sound stops when the clutch is pulled , but that means the input shaft unloads and stops spinning to. The video is a little deceiving. I was trying to recreate the sound by applying some rear brake in gear to simulate a load. The sound of the trans teeth rattling overshadow the cyclic rumble that is best heard in the last 25 seconds of the recording. This rumble is much worse under load and sounds like a bearing running with no lubrication. The sound has me convinced it's a trans shaft bearing. Beginning to wander if this leak has something to do with it. Input shaft bearing perhaps?
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0330.jpg
No choice now but to pull it off and open the tranny and have a look.

Banjax 11-28-2006 10:03 AM

My first post on ADVrider!.
My 1150 sounds just like that as well.
On centrestand,gear engaged,let out clutch.Bag of spanners in the washing machine.
What does it sound like when you ride it normally on the street?.Is it the same?.Mine sounds normal under these circumstances.
I have been told that the angle of the drive shaft when on the stand is too much and it creates noise.That and the motors power pulses thru the transmission when its unloaded cause vibration.Good luck with it.

ezgizza99 11-28-2006 10:32 AM

don't worry....your bike just needs
 
a little throttle body sync... or maybe one of your valves is .5 nanometers misadjusted....:rofl

i just had to! sorry! :lol3


yeah - i vote for clutch rivets or clutch coming apart - I have a pushrod bearing failing (or a warped pushrod) and it sounds way different than that....

JimVonBaden 11-28-2006 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjax
My first post on ADVrider!.
My 1150 sounds just like that as well.
On centrestand,gear engaged,let out clutch.Bag of spanners in the washing machine.
What does it sound like when you ride it normally on the street?.Is it the same?.Mine sounds normal under these circumstances.
I have been told that the angle of the drive shaft when on the stand is too much and it creates noise.That and the motors power pulses thru the transmission when its unloaded cause vibration.Good luck with it.

Just to be clear. In gear? Clutch handle released?

Was it on the centerstand with the rear wheel free spinning? Does it do it under load? Does it do it with the trans in neutral and the clutch handle released, pulled in?

Jim :brow

scarysharkface 11-28-2006 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bemiiten
Managed to dig a little deeper tonight.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0329.jpg
Bummer,It's not a bad u joint. To easy. :D Really don't think it's a clutch problem either. The sound stops when the clutch is pulled , but that means the input shaft unloads and stops spinning to. The video is a little deceiving. I was trying to recreate the sound by applying some rear brake in gear to simulate a load. The sound of the trans teeth rattling overshadow the cyclic rumble that is best heard in the last 25 seconds of the recording. This rumble is much worse under load and sounds like a bearing running with no lubrication. The sound has me convinced it's a trans shaft bearing. Beginning to wander if this leak has something to do with it. Input shaft bearing perhaps?
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0330.jpg
No choice now but to pull it off and open the tranny and have a look.

I don't see a leak, only some sticky gasket goo from possible previous work, or perhaps from initial assembly...

John

JimVonBaden 11-28-2006 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarysharkface
I don't see a leak, only some sticky gasket goo from possible previous work, or perhaps from initial assembly...

John

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0330.jpg

Actually that is a pretty common front seal leak on the 12GS series, and several have had it on the 1150 as well.

It is a slow leak combined with clutch dust.

Jim :brow

PS Mine did the same, as well as a rear seal that required a new clutch disc and clutch slave cylinder.

bemiiten 11-28-2006 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Just to be clear. In gear? Clutch handle released?

Was it on the center stand with the rear wheel free spinning? Does it do it under load? Does it do it with the trans in neutral and the clutch handle released, pulled in?

Jim :brow

The video shows the bike on the center stand, wheel spinning in first gear. It is normal for the trans to make allot of noise under this condition, but not on the road with a steady smooth load. When the bike is in neutral , it really isn't to noticeable. Put the bike in any gear and apply a load from slight to full out ,and it is a horrible , unmistakable cyclic grinding :eek1. Sounds like choo choo choo choo.... :cry Speeds up with road speed. Pull in the clutch and it all but disappears.
Completely convinced that it is a trans shaft bearing. I hope I can find evidence when I open the trans. It started while riding this weekend. By the time I was sure I was hearing something wrong and pulled out the earplugs to confirm, I was 75 miles from home. Rode it back with no issues except the grinding. Pulled the black magnetic drain plug on the bottom of the trans to find it filled with fine metallic fuzz, but nothing any bigger. I never pulled the magnetic drain plug before and I wished I had. So if you have a 1150 , do yourself a favor and clean it off next service. I think the bearings in the trans are sealed (?) which means any grindings should stay in the bearing. The leak at the clutch housing has been there for 15,000 miles. Figured it to be a rear main because I could not detect any gear oil smell. Will find out for sure tonight

bemiiten 11-28-2006 07:51 PM

Here's a trick to help get the clutch disk centerd.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0337.jpg
Trace around the pressure plate with a pencil and you can use the marks to confirm the disk is centerd, Assuming the same disk is going back in. Not so sure about this one. Manual shows a wear limit of 4.8mm , This one measures 6.3mm.
Looks like the rear main is not the source of my leak.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0339.jpg
The trans input seal on the other hand...
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0332.jpg

Komito 11-28-2006 08:34 PM

H-d
 
Your problem lies in a very simple fact: you were tricked. Its actually a Harley and not a GS, sorry...:rofl

4wheeldog 11-29-2006 08:51 AM

Looks to me like you may have the dread input shaft spline problem. Did you have problems shifting? Your clutch disc splines look worn out, and the input shaft appears to have a lot of taper. Good luck!

bemiiten 11-29-2006 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4wheeldog
Looks to me like you may have the dread input shaft spline problem. Did you have problems shifting? Your clutch disc splines look worn out, and the input shaft appears to have a lot of taper. Good luck!

Bike shifts fine. Splines look OK in person. I did a spline lube at 35k. At 55k the splines are dry again, even after using the Honda molly 60. The spline wear looks about the same as before.

bemiiten 12-01-2006 08:49 PM

Smoking gun found!
With the trans pulled and cleaned it's time. I use a long drift to drive out the two pins where the two halves of the trans mate. I heat up the case first to loosen them up a bit and add a little penetrating fluid. They take a considerable whack to move so the heat seems like a good idea even though the manual makes no mention for this step.
Next order of business is to heat the bearing points in the rear cover. I use two heat guns for 15 minuets. No soup yet.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0356.jpg
This laser temp reader takes out the guesswork.
After about 30 minuets I'm reading 170 degrees. I decide to give it a try. The back half of the trans slips off easily by hand. Sweet! :clap
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r/IMG_0359.jpg


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