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-   -   KTM 640 Adventure HID Upgrade w Centech (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197163)

dirty_sanchez 01-17-2007 09:30 AM

KTM 640 Adventure HID Upgrade w Centech
 
Some of you may have been following the various HID conversion threads relating to the KTM 640 Adventure over the last few months. After a mild bit of prodding from Meat to do a proper write-up on this upgrade, here it is:
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Awhile back I bought a HID conversion kit complete with the standard H-1 bulbs, wiring, and ballast/starter off of Ebay for right at $150 including shipping. Money well spent in my book.
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All of us have our personal farkle cost justification calculator, but when I crunched the numbers with shipping for the HID rig, I was looking at a 200 total watts for the stator on my '03 640A, 110w for the High/Low Both on conversion mod., OR 70w total draw for the HID setup, or $50 to $75 each for the PIAA hot-rod H1 conversion bulbs times 2- that still wouldn't be anywhere near as bright as just one 35w HID bulb. To me the choice was easy to make.
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Just one HID bulb uses 35 watts giving 3 times more lumens or the equivalent of nearly 150 watts of old school halogen lighting. Imagine how nice it would be having 300 watts of clean white manageable light would look like the next time you get caught out after dark on a backwoods moonless night. The usable field of view I’d estimate with the both-on HID mod is roughly 70 to 100 yards wide by 500 yards deep. <o:p></o:p>
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If you do a lumen output search, you'll see that the brightest HID's are in the 4300ish kelvin scale. The ebay vendor I got mine from just had the H1's in 6000k, which still melt the vinyl siding on the next door neighbors house.
Here's a few photos of the way I mounted the ballasts. And the kit I got has a stamped ballast "holster":

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...romla/Chip.jpg

Ballast- roughly the size of a deck of cards
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...omla/Chip1.jpg

At first I installed the low beam HID rig using the stock wiring (which from what I gather from other posts) is woefully undersized. This hunch was confirmed by the way the low HID flickered and clickered when I turned on the ignition. The ballast wanted more current from the battery to fire the bulb but couldn't with the engine off. So, I installed a regular old toggle switch I got from the local electrical supply house to control the high beam (stock halogen), then I would start the bike, then switch back to the low beam-where then the HID low beam. Doing this little toggle switch dance once the engine started gave the ballast enough juice to fire the bulb.
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You'll have to drill out the removable plastic cover that mounts with a little 1/4 turn on the rear of each lamp housing- I think I used a 3/4" or 7/8” wood bit, then nest the rubber grommet that surrounds the HID wires into this hole. The grommet keeps the water out. You'll know what I'm talking about once you open the box. The ballast for each bulb is roughly the size of a deck of playing cards. Note the mounting location on each side of the front mask bracketing. Relocation of the stock horn mounting location will be required since the ballast on the high beam side makes for some real estate issues.
Trace the high and low beam positive wires back to the right side of the bike’s wiring quick connects (above the horn area). You’re looking for a purple wire (High) and a black wire (Low). You’ll have to clip these and use them as the “trigger” or “switch” wires for the relays. These two wires should be yellow and routed to the relays. Just make sure you clip them to give you enough room to crimp and heatshrink them.
Photo of right side of bike above the horn where the High and Low leads are found.

<o:p>http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_3985.jpg</o:p>
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Wire colors coming out of the actual headlamps: <o:p></o:p>
Low Beam: Positive is Black, Negative is Brown. <o:p></o:p>
High Beam: Positive is Black, Negative is Brown/Orange stripe

Note the mounting location of the Centech-just forward of the tach and under the dash
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4023.jpg
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For what it’s worth, the only heatshrink tubing I use is expensive and is available from Fastenal. This particular brand of heatshrink tubing has hotmelt glue on the inside to both seal out moisture and make for an incredibly strong splice. The butt splices have a little ring of solder in the center- insert a wire from both ends, crimp the solder band, apply heat-it’s now soldered, sealed, and hotmelted. This brand of toggle has a good feel to it-a sturdy positive "Click" when actuated. This brand also has a very sturdy rubber boot bought from an electrical supply house unlike the rubber switch boots I bought and later returned from West Marine. The first toggle I bought was from NAPA and had a girly-man feel to it. I'd suggest shopping toggles until you source one with a good feel for use with gloved hands.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4020.jpg

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The ultimate goal I had with this bike is to add heated grips, wiring for a Gerbing Jacket, and a hardwired Garmin on a TT mount. Having a rather limited amount of real estate on a bike with all of these extra wires running from under the seat in the even tighter battery compartment up to the front end had me searching for a better way. And this is where I learned about the Centech AP-1.
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I sourced the Centech AP-1 directly from their website. After talking to the Centech guy over the phone, I learned this 5 position fuseblock was fed by just one positive and one ground terminal. Once you bring power and ground from the battery to the Centech (where ever you choose to mount it) all you have to do is to hook up the positive and negative leads directly to the Centech for each additional farkle you install. I wired the following circuits: High and Low HID, Grips, Gerbing jacket, and Garmin. The hot and ground leads feeding the Centech are now a fat 12ga with 14 ga feeding the farkles.
The Centech AP-1

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/Centech2.jpg

Under the hood:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/Centech1.jpg

3 30A potted relays were installed since I had already discovered the stock wiring was a bit undersized to fire the new HID’s. One to power the low HID, the second to power the high HID, and the third wired to allow the low to burn while on high beam with a toggle on the dash to kill the low while the high is on if I have a need as well as kill the low during daytime running once again if I have the need. If you’ll notice, the second fuse from the right on the Centech handles the low beam HID circuit AND has provisions to have two positive inputs. Why did I mention this? The first input terminal on this #2 fuse powers the regular low beam, and the second positive input handles the “both-HID’s on” positive lead.
Green wires from right to left: High positive, Low Positive, Low Positive for the both-on mod controlled by the "Both" Relay. Then the Red for the jacket, and the yellow for the grips. Make sure to zip tie the group of wires coming out of the negative and positive sides of the Centech to strengthen and protect from vibration.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_3994.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_3981.jpg<o:p></o:p>

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http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_3983.jpg

Notice how I labled the function of each relay- High, Low, Both and the tape and zip tie on the High Relay. All relays are taped and tied before I'm done.
Centech with the lid labled and reattached:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_3998.jpg

I drew up a wiring diagram using 3 relays, the low, high, and both-on with the addition of 2 toggle switches. The switches allow you to have complete control of the lighting options available having two separate headlights. <o:p></o:p>
  • Both HID’s off with the smaller daytime running bulb in the high headlamp. Useful for daytime running.<o:p></o:p>
  • Low HID on<o:p></o:p>
  • High HID on<o:p></o:p>
  • Both Low and High HID’s ON
I like to label everything under the dash like the wire colors for the grip switch and for the dash powerlet plug. Everything is buttoned up, zip tied in a fairly organized way:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4001.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4003.jpg

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http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4004.jpg

A few of you have already asked me to forward you this diagram. PM me if you want a copy.
Now this wiring upgrade is complete, I switch on the key and either HID fires right up. I can also throw the toggle to kill the low before switching on the ignition if the battery is low.
Both dash toggles up and off gives just the daytime running light on:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4006.jpg

Low Beam toggle switched on:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4010.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4009.jpg



Both dash switches on, the Both-On, Grass Burner Mode:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4014.jpg

High Only
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4012.jpg

Relays tucked up under the dash- It' tight, but doable:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4016.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...a/IMG_4019.jpg


Coming off of the bike with both lights ablaze compared to driving my hot rod mini-van with the brights burning now feels like I'm driving around at night wearing welding goggles. NO KIDDING.
Front view with the mask remounted-note the tucked up and away mounting location of the ballasts, I still hadn't mounted the high beam ballast where the horn is still mounted.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...omla/Chip3.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...omla/Chip4.jpg



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I have never found the ballast to be the least bit warm after stopping after a ride, so it must not get hot as far as I can tell. Plus, you would think that with more lumens comes more heat. the HID puts out 3 times more light (have heard the 35w HID equals 160w of halogen), but I can touch any place on the lamp (lens or back housing) and it dosen't feel all that warm after a ride.
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It's amazing that now the HID low beam projects just as far as the 55w Halogen High beam but now I have a tremendous field of view as compared to the High pencil beam. Now the High beam is never used, and looks like a worn out flashlight when compared to the HID low beam.
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With both lights burning now, I'm illuminating the stop sign from one end of my street to the other. This distance is right at half a mile (I measured it) and these things really have turned night into day.
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There’s been some discussion on the attention you might receive from The Man with these types of headlights. This conversion is intended to make my Off-Road Only experience safer and more enjoyable, and I can assure you these lights now are definitely not ready for prime-time.
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Update: Well, I've ridden past the Man numerous times at this point and have not gotten a second look.
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Some have asked me about the beam cutoff due to variations of the focus points for the stock H1 filament bulb vs. the location of the HID’s excited gas- Well, the low beam cut-off is still sharp as a tack, and completely controllable. Oncoming motorists don’t flash their lights at me which tells me the low is adjusted properly. I’ve been told the both-on High/Low Beams on the other hand is “Painful to look at” even at 4 to 500 yards away. I’ve learned to use this newfound force sparingly and responsibly so as to not injure others or start grass fires.
Turning the bars hard lock to the right causes a slight bit of interference with the deeper bulb wiring and front brake line and Speedo cable. Still thinking about a low tech way to remedy this issue, but other than that, it's a clean, fast install that plugs right up.
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For reference, a 55W stock bulb pulls 4.6A and if you to the both-on 55w headlight wiring mod, that comes to 9.2A Now we have a whopping 0.8A available for farkle juice if we keep with the 10A or less load.
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Farkle draw:
HID High Beam, 2.9A
HID Low Beam, 2.9A
Heated Jacket, 6.5A
Heated Grips, 1.7A
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I’ll let you do the math on all of the various Farkle Load combinations.
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Then at different engine speeds the stator makes variable power:

1500 9A
2000 11A
3000 13A
6000 14A
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After a back road cold 30 minute ride with the Gerbing cranked up to 11 and both lights ablaze I got back to the house all toasty and cut the engine. Then I tried starting her up again only to hear the starter click. Hmm, guess a 12.3A load taxed the charging system a bit much. I need to keep the load to the Recommended Daily Allowance of 10A. Doing the math says the jacket and just one light will give a load of 9.5A. I can tell you that the Gerbing on low/mediumish, grips on low, and one of the HID’s burning makes for a happy 640A and rider.
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At first, the Centech was wired to have constant “ON” power feeding the front end of the bike which meant if I forgot to turn the grips off, or came to a stop, killed the engine and forgot to switch off the Gerbing, I would promply drain the battery. So, the last and 4<SUP>th</SUP> relay was wired/mounted/installed under the seat just aft of the cross-rail the seat bolts. The trigger wire is the positive lead for the tail lamp. Now, anytime turn the key off, all farkles powered through the Centech are also switched off.
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Now the Senior Moments I am plagued with on a regular basis don’t result in a dead battery.
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Don't hesitate to do the HID upgrade if you have a notion.


Dirty<o:p></o:p>

DC950 01-17-2007 10:33 AM

thanks! I guess there is no reason not to do it now.

christian 01-17-2007 10:52 AM

great A+++

meat popsicle 01-27-2007 07:20 AM

Way to go dirty! It seems to be very descriptive and should be useful to a wide variety of folks doing electrical mods. I need more time with it, say to look for wire upgrades... , but my quick review impressed me.

Sorry I have been out for a spell, still not fully available, but I wanted to give your thread a deserving bump because it seems to have not garnered the attention it probably deserves. :beer

I have not done this type of mod, so folks who are doing this stuff need to try out these methods and report back - that would be all I need for a nomination into the How-To Section eh? :wink:

dirty_sanchez 01-27-2007 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Way to go dirty! It seems to be very descriptive and should be useful to a wide variety of folks doing electrical mods. I need more time with it, say to look for wire upgrades... , but my quick review impressed me.

Sorry I have been out for a spell, still not fully available, but I wanted to give your thread a deserving bump because it seems to have not garnered the attention it probably deserves. :beer

I have not done this type of mod, so folks who are doing this stuff need to try out these methods and report back - that would be all I need for a nomination into the How-To Section eh? :wink:

Thanks Meat, It was a pretty fun and fairly easy project. I spent more time trying to figure out the wiring diagram than it took to do the actual install.

Guess I need to figure out how to scan the wiring diagram and stick it in the thread as either a jpg or a pdf.

Come on man, we gotta vote on whether my post is worthy for a 640A sticky? I figured it out and shared-just so the world would be a better place.

With the write up on this HID/Centech upgrade I did, I've made it so easy even a Caveman can do it!

Hope you're getting settled into your new Tennessee digs.

Dirty

mars 01-27-2007 05:04 PM

Don't Kelvins refer to the frequency of the light waves and lumens are the intensity? I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

Most info I have seen on these arc bulbs is that they produce about 5 times as many lumens as a conventional resistance light bulb. One that runs at 6,000 kelvins is very close to dayllight that from my experience runs from 5500 to 7000 kelvins depending on the conditions. It should look very blue during the night and white during the day.

dirty_sanchez 01-27-2007 06:58 PM

A Lumen is a unit of measurement which refers to the amount or quantity of light emitted from a bulb.

Kelvin is a unit of measurement for the color temperature. It may very well refer to the light frequency, not really sure. Think of a rainbow, the bluish/purplish side measures higher on the kelvin scale in the 10,000 kelvin to 12,000 kelvin, while the yellow side of the rainbow has a lower kelvin number say around 2000 kelvin.

Lights with a higher kelvin number aren't what you want, unless you're after that blueish and even purplish light.

If I remember correctly, a 55w halogen bulb burns at 3500k, and emits around 1100 lumens.

HID conversion kits (most all are 35w) are available in all sorts of color temperatures, but right around 4000 to 4200k from what I understand gives off the most lumens

I got the 6000k HID conversion setup and they give off 3200 lumens each. If and when these bulbs ever burn out, I'll get the 4200k bulbs.

Dirty

mars 01-27-2007 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
A Lumen is a unit of measurement which refers to the amount or quantity of light emitted from a bulb.

Kelvin is a unit of measurement for the color temperature. It may very well refer to the light frequency, not really sure. Think of a rainbow, the bluish/purplish side measures higher on the kelvin scale in the 10,000 kelvin to 12,000 kelvin, while the yellow side of the rainbow has a lower kelvin number say around 2000 kelvin.

Lights with a higher kelvin number aren't what you want, unless you're after that blueish and even purplish light.

If I remember correctly, a 55w halogen bulb burns at 3500k, and emits around 1100 lumens.

HID conversion kits (most all are 35w) are available in all sorts of color temperatures, but right around 4000 to 4200k from what I understand gives off the most lumens

I got the 6000k HID conversion setup and they give off 3200 lumens each. If and when these bulbs ever burn out, I'll get the 4200k bulbs.

Dirty

Yeah, I deal with these issues at work a lot, red light is in the 1500 to 2000 range, daylight can go up to 8k and is toward the blue spectrum but I think the standard daylight is around 5600 range. After the visible range is IR and then radio waves. Night vision goggles use the IR range that we can not see. Over half of the heat we feel in the summer from the ground is from IR or infrared radiation.

Usually resistance light bulbs (tungsten) produce heat that is usually in the IR range and visible light, bulbs that produce light by jumping electricity across a gap have very little resistance therefore very little heat and lots of lumens regardless of the frequency (Kelvin). Thats how your HID works, lots of voltage to jump the gap.

Hopefully this makes sense, I just got back from a party and have had way to much to drink. Your standard tungsten bulb is probably brighter in the IR range but thatís a story to tell when I am much more sober.

You did a very nice job detailing the installation, I hope to do that to my 640 before spring. Good info.

mike cramb 01-28-2007 03:20 AM

I bought a kit (made in china) $179 aust dollars thats about a 100 US.

Just bolted up balast same location as the pics above drilled out the back of the black plastic light fitting and fitted new oversize gromet the tidyed up the loose wires took about an hour to complete. No extra fuses switches or drilling holes in my dash very simple.

The brand is "Brightstar TW" I got mine through Autostream one of the ozzie moderators.

Have done 3000ks off road since very happy very reliable.,

MIKE :D

dirty_sanchez 02-13-2007 09:39 AM

I now have a scanned version of the wiring diagram if anyone would like me to E-mail them a copy.

Dirty

dirty_sanchez 03-27-2007 10:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's the wiring diagram.

If you can't make out the text I can fax over the original or E you the diagram saved as a word document.

buffallodan 06-17-2007 07:53 AM

Dirty,
I sent you a pm asking for the diagram...
Excellent write up :clap, you have shown me the way...

I have a Husky TE with 240W ouput and plan to run Jacket,GPS,Tecate HID, Aux TrailTech HID's for lowbeam, HGrips, and powerlet for Phone or Ipod.
With your setup I can shut off both sets of light when running Jacket and grips and until finding this thread didn't know if it was possible. Thanks for the info Dirty and I will do a follow up when I get my install done...

Dan

dirty_sanchez 06-17-2007 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffallodan
Dirty,
I sent you a pm asking for the diagram...
Excellent write up :clap, you have shown me the way...

I have a Husky TE with 240W ouput and plan to run Jacket,GPS,Tecate HID, Aux TrailTech HID's for lowbeam, HGrips, and powerlet for Phone or Ipod.
With your setup I can shut off both sets of light when running Jacket and grips and until finding this thread didn't know if it was possible. Thanks for the info Dirty and I will do a follow up when I get my install done...

Dan

Thanks for the kudos-

This project was a kick to do. The whole thing has worked like a champ for many thousands of miles, in all sorts of conditions, and not blown one fuse. Just promise the Elder members of the Cult of the HID to use the force responsibly.

Check your PM.

Dirty

Ricardo Kuhn 06-17-2007 09:14 AM

Doctor Sanchez great Job on the set up, exelent tips about marking the color of the wires and were they go, make sense, specially if something happend in the field..

So far I have seven HID lights and I can not speak loud enogh about their benefits and how bullet proof they are, my oldest is a K.A.T.Z. unit about six year old and never ever suffer any issues, no melted lenses, no damage bulbs, nothing.

I week ago I did the same to my new 950 installing the euro light and two HID and the transformation is incredible, tomorrow I'm starting a "Tilting Light" project so I can run the low and high beams all the time (Prolong bulb life and reaction time) but be able to control the angle of the light mecanically from my left hand grip (like a trottle) so nobody retinas get burn in the process.


Thanks again for the careful write up and the exelent ideas you have provide.:feelgood

1stworks 06-18-2007 08:02 PM

thanks
 
Thanks for your post it was great!!!

:clap


firstworks


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