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-   -   HELP!! F**KED my LC4 cam (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286283)

Dotbond 11-19-2007 11:56 PM

HELP!! F**KED my LC4 cam
 
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...TMCamInlet.jpg
Did a weekend ride and tappit noise came back about 100km into the ride.
Didn't think much of it.
Just pulled the rocker cover and the inlet cam follower bearing had siezed and has worn the inlet cam lobe about 1mm.:cry
What to do??
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...aringInlet.jpg

Bike has done 15,500km. Regular oil and filter changes changes. 2004 model.
http://http://i156.photobucket.com/a...aringInlet.jpg

JSL 11-20-2007 01:12 AM

You need a new cam and the cam follower bearing (no? really!?). This happened to me this fall after about 28600km, though the damage was not nearly as bad. I suggest that you replace both cam follower bearings while you're at it. I replaced only the broken one and the tapping noise came back after ~1000km so I'll have to open it again some time soon.

The new (standard) cam is ~150 euros and the bearings are ~20 euros each. I've been told that a damaged cam may also be fixed by the same shops that do cam tuning.

bmwktmbill 11-20-2007 02:09 AM

Dotbond,
That sucks, I just wrote a bunch of good stuff about KTM 640 reliability. I take it all back....
Make sure you peen the shafts for the new bearings in place. I didn't and paid for it when the shaft drifted out and raised a little hell.
Run a magnet around in the recesses. Check the water pump.
b.

rob748 11-20-2007 04:56 AM

cam
 
mine did this at about 15000, do the water pump seal while you have it open

whitezw 11-20-2007 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotbond
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...TMCamInlet.jpg
Did a weekend ride and tappit noise came back about 100km into the ride.
Didn't think much of it.
Just pulled the rocker cover and the inlet cam follower bearing had siezed and has worn the inlet cam lobe about 1mm.:cry
What to do??
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...aringInlet.jpg

Bike has done 15,500km. Regular oil and filter changes changes. 2004 model.
http://http://i156.photobucket.com/a...aringInlet.jpg

I have a cam from a 1997 LC4 if you are interested...

Thanks,
Zeb

Zerodog 11-20-2007 05:55 PM

Dude that sucks. Get a rally cam while you are at it:wink:.

Spam16v 11-20-2007 06:22 PM

good excuse to spend money for more power while it's apart if you ask me... look on the bright side b/c focusing on the negative just sucks.

Dotbond 11-20-2007 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerodog
Dude that sucks. Get a rally cam while you are at it:wink:.

And i suppose you "know" someone who does them.....?:lol3

Serious couple of questions here.
1. Will i need to strip the motor down to check it out or will just flushing and changing the oil and filters suffice? I am a student for the next 2 years - poor.

2. Any body heard of getting the cam repaired?

3. Do i replace the cam bearings with KTM ones or a known aftermarket brand?

4. How do i get the cam out?

Any words of wisdom welcome please.

holycaveman 11-20-2007 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob748
mine did this at about 15000, do the water pump seal while you have it open

Hmmm, look familiar Rob?:D

gunnerbuck 11-20-2007 10:16 PM

#1 If the bearing just seized and all the needle rollers are in place only fine particulate may of gone into the motor. If thats the case you may get away with just doing the repair along with with a few oil flushes. Pull the drain plugs and see what the magnets say...

#2 I would say to just spring for the new part rather than trying to rebuild the old cam.

#3 I don't know of any aftermarket follower bearings for the 640. The OEMs are not that costly and I think are your only option. They are a little tricky to replace as the bearings consist of loose needles and a pastic containment sleeve that slides out when the shaft is pushed thru. As Bill mentioned you will have to press the old shafts out {I used a ball joint removal press to do mine} as the shaft ends have been flared with a ringstamp. The new shafts can be pushed in by hand and the ends can be flared by carefully dimpling the shaft ends 6-8 times per end with a small centerpunch around the outside edges.

#4 Use the crankshaft locking bolt to lock the shaft you can then loosen and remove the sprocket retaining bolt. Pry the bearing circlip up out of its groove. You then can tilt the cap bearing end of the camshaft up and slide the shaft out of the sprocket. Once clear of the sprocket the shaft, bearing and circlip can be lifted out together and a dowel can be put in the sprocket to hold it in place....

Dotbond 11-20-2007 11:24 PM

[quote/]#4 Use the crankshaft locking bolt to lock the shaft you can then loosen and remove the sprocket retaining bolt. Pry the bearing circlip up out of its groove. You then can tilt the cap bearing end of the camshaft up and slide the shaft out of the sprocket. Once clear of the sprocket the shaft, bearing and circlip can be lifted out together and a dowel can be put in the sprocket to hold it in place....[/quote]

Looks like i have a standard length bolt M8x16mm and 1mm thick washer according to the info about the bolt in the manual and i need a special tool.
I suppose a longer bolt would be the go. An ideas on the length required?

gunnerbuck 11-20-2007 11:56 PM

I made one out of a stud that had 25+mms of thread. I ground about a 45 degree blunt point in the threaded end to engage the recess in the crank web and a screwdriver slot in the other to torque it in. You could use a bolt as well but may have to remove the filter anytime you wanted to use it. Leave a little flat on the end, in other words dont grind it to a full point and be carefull not to torque it in too hard and distort the crank... You can shine a flashlight into the hole to see the slot in the crankweb at TDC to see what shape to make your point....

Just measuring up the KTM OEM locking screw and it has about 25mm of thread....

Good luck...
David...

Dotbond 11-21-2007 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnerbuck
I made one out of a stud that had 25+mms of thread. I ground about a 45 degree blunt point in the threaded end to engage the recess in the crank web and a screwdriver slot in the other to torque it in. You could use a bolt as well but may have to remove the filter anytime you wanted to use it. Leave a little flat on the end, in other words dont grind it to a full point and be carefull not to torque it in too hard and distort the crank... You can shine a flashlight into the hole to see the slot in the crankweb at TDC to see what shape to make your point....

Just measuring up the KTM OEM locking screw and it has about 25mm of thread....

Good luck...
David...

Thanks for that info. I found your post about this from last year but wasn't too sure.
Will take a photo of the mesh filter to see the debri from the cam.
There wasn't any sign of metal when removed the front spin on filter and drained the downtube.
Lots of fine-ish metal and very fine dust like metal around the two bottom magnetic drain plugs tho.
Haven't taken off the RH paper filter yet. Tomorrows job.

Trev.

bmwktmbill 11-21-2007 02:49 AM

DB,
The cam repair is prbably a spray weld hard coating. It might work if you are broke, I understand that problem. A good auto machine sop should be able to help and press in and peen your new cam followers.

Don't give up.
This is the bad luck.
The engine really is tough.

Use the magnet on the top end and change the oil in the lower end, use cheap stuff, run it for a bit and change it again. I would just do the lower end oil, not the main tube. It is filtered to get in there.

Finially you can change everything and the filters and use good oil.
b.

gunnerbuck 11-21-2007 07:32 AM

If you leave the paper filter on its side to drain you will most likely see some metalflake in the oil.. To test if the oiljet is clear from this filter to the piston I use a thumb lever oilcan to squirt some oil thru the banjo port above the TDC inspection window. A shot with an airgun will also tell you it's open...


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