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themansfield 01-08-2009 07:43 AM

XR650R electricity
 
Long time listener, first time caller. Just purchased a 2003 XR650R for adventure transformation and electronics are next on the list. I've read a good number of posts about stator upgrades but haven't found answers to a couple specific questions.

Bike came with standard cheezy dual sport conversion kit, using stock stator with addition of battery. Can I install a high output stator (of rewind it myself) that outputs only AC and ditch the DC battery setup? I don't mind that lights and signals and cooling fan won't work unless the bike is on. Or do I need DC circuitry to run components like GPS and cooling fan?

So, if it's better to install a stator that does both DC and AC (2x100w or something), do I need to get higher-rated recifiers/regulators? Would a high output stator burn up the stock AC reg and the lame dual sport DC stuff? How about al the bulbs in the signals and tail light?

What kind of high output stator would be best? Some specify things like 2x100w or 2x125w and some only spec. 250w. It seems that some are designed to give separate DC and AC output, but others (including a home rewind) only beef up the existing stock AC output....?


Can somebody learn me what is a good setup for me? I'd like to use a better bulb in the headlight for some decent seeing capabilities, run the KTM cooling fan kit, and have the option for a GPS. I already have a trip computer that is internal battery powered.

Thanks.

kjazz 01-08-2009 10:07 AM

I too just bought a 2003 XR650R. It already has a Moose hi-output stator and Dakar head light with blinkers etc. I'm told the battery must be fully charged for the blinkers to work correctly (even when running) ?! huh?

I'll lurk on your thread. It seems we'll be asking the very same questions.

Best,
Kerry

Luke 01-08-2009 11:47 AM

All stators output AC. DC regulators contain circuitry to convert the AC to DC. DC regulators require some sort of energy storage device to work properly. This can be either a battery or a capacitor. Trailtech.net sells both.


Blinkers, fans, horns and GPSs require DC. If you use a capacitor instead of a battery then they won't work when the motor is stopped.

Some of the aftermarket stators use two outputs so that there is less stress on the regulators. They suggest running one stator coil to a DC system so that you can have blinkers, etc. They suggest the other coil go to an AC system because that is more power efficient and requires fewer parts.


The simplest setup for you would be a stator with a single winding driving a DC system. This is what I have. The regulator is the common Tympanium unit sold by Baja Designs, and it uses a capacitor for storage. This is with a home-wound stator. If you buy a stator, I would use whatever regulator(s) the mfg recommends. Power ratings on stators don't tell you much unless you are comparing ratings from the same manufacturer.

For a multi-winding system, it would make the most sense to run a headlight off one winding with an AC regulator and everything else off the other winding with a DC regulator.





kjazz;
If your blinkers don't work with a flat battery replace the flasher unit with a better one. I have a $5 electronic (not thermal) flasher from Kragen that replaces the one from a DS kit, and it works fine below 10 volts.

XRider 01-08-2009 04:27 PM

I've put quite a few big stators in XRs and this is the setup I like best and that has been the most durable.

First I start with a Baja Designs 250w (125w x2) rewound stator. It is the highest output that I've found and in my opinion nobody does it better. This is a dual output stator so I run one output to a B.D. regulator/rectifier (reg/rect is rated at 160w) giving me 125w DC. Here in California to be street legal you have to be able to run your tail light for 20 minutes with the motor off. So I run the DSK and the bike from the DC side, the CDI gets it's power from a third coil on the stator so it's not a factor when calculating the load. The bike, the battery, the blinkers, and tail/stop light take about 30w. I replace the 35w headlight with a 55/60w halogen which means there is 35-40w DC left for heated grips, GPS, iPod, etc.

The second 125w output from the stator I run through an AC regulator (the stock Honda unit will work just fine) and use it to power two 55w halogen projector beam off road lights that I mount up front on a light bar. Ricky Stator makes an excellent product however with only 100w per side you can't run two 55w halogens and the majority of after market halogen lights are 55w. I use an automotive style relay wired so that the off road lights go on when the high beam is switched on. 170w of light make the darkest mountain road or trail on a moonless night a piece of cake.

HID lights (the very best) offer twice as much light from half as much power at about 10x the cost of halogens. If you go with HID you will need an all DC system.

themansfield 01-08-2009 05:24 PM

I'm in CA, also, so I suppose I ought to be sure about the tail light deal.

Since my horn, tail light, signals, and horn all work now with the bike not running, it follows that the dual sport kit runs strictly on DC, right? Meaning that the AC from the stator is all being converted to DC, except for a split that goes into the stock AC regulator and then to the CDI?

It looks like I could get the BD 2x125w stator and BD DC regulator and successfully beef up the wattage as it is all wired up now. Then I'd also have 125w of AC when the bike was running to run the accessories.

Still a little confused about where the CDI gets its power and how that is affected by stator upgrade.

XRider 01-08-2009 06:26 PM

If you remove the stator from your bike (and it's an XR650R)what you would see looks a little like a waggon wheel with 12 spokes. On the stock unit two of the spokes have windings that are connected to a brown wire and a black wire with a red stripe, those two windings make the (AC) power for the ingnition and the black/red and the brown wire connect straight to the CDI box. In addition to the first 2 there are 4 other spokes with windings that provide power for everything else. These four windings are connected to a green wire and a white wire with a yellow stripe. On your bike these two wires bring AC power to the 2 yellow wires from the regulator/rectifier. The reg/rect converts the AC into 12 volts DC which comes out the black and red wires. The battery and all the lighting power for your bike comes from the black and red wires. The six remaining spokes on the stock stator have no windings at all. When they rewind your stator the coils added to 5 of the empty spokes become the second 125w power source and are connected to 2 white wires that are added to accomodate this. This is one of the ways you can tell if your XR has a rewound stator. A stock stator will have 4 wires comming out of the case (brn, blk/red, grn, wht/yel), a rewound stator will have 6 wires exiting the case (4 plus the 2 white wires).

Even though the stock AC regulator is still bolted to the frame, on most dual sport conversions (with a stock stator) it is not connected to anything.

I know I went on a bit but I hope I was able to make this clear.:huh Also, I don't know what part of California you live in but I'm in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley) and I'll help you out with your wireing if your local. I can also email you any schematics you might need for your XR, stator, or DSK. Just PM me and I'll set you up.

desertfox2 01-08-2009 08:48 PM

XR Rider thanks for the great info. I happen to be in the beginning stages of doing this myself.

XRider 01-08-2009 10:54 PM

No sweat, but you should take me up on the schematics. For instance I have the schematics for every dual sport kit Baja Designs has made as well as Trick cycle and Joe Racer. I actualy get a lot of side work tightening up botched dual sport kit installs. But the tech references are free just as they were to me so feel free to ask.

themansfield 01-09-2009 07:34 AM

I'd love the schematics. The dsk installed on my bike is a total piece. High/low switch doesn't function, kill switch is busted, light switch doesn't work as it should in all three positions...Problem is, kit looks like all the components are from different sources/manufacturers. UFO integrated blinkers headlight unit, acerbis tail light, K&S bar switch and harness...

Schematics would be a great start for me on this thing...I hope the K&S harness looks at least something like the BD setup. That or it's a trip to Silicon Valley...

Thanks for all the help.

Hodakaguy 01-10-2009 04:27 AM

Here's a shot of my BRP taken yesterday. I just installed a 200W Ricky Stator. I'm running one 100W leg into the Baja Designs regulator/rectifier and the other 100W leg AC, directly to the head light. You can see the AC voltage regulator in this shot. It all fits under the seat nice and snug, even with the Baja Designs battery under there.

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3051/img0734op2.jpg

I also changed out the cheap ends on the Ricky Stator harness for better reliability. I'll use the same ends to connects the lights ect. Learn more about the upgraded electrical connectors HERE.

Hope this helps.

Hodakaguy

XRR-kat 01-10-2009 08:00 AM

Hodakaguy,
Did you modify a Baja designs DS kit to do your underseat mount kit?
I have an easy mount kit with all the electrics up front behind their headlight.
I am thinking of modifying to underseat as I won't be able to mount the Trail Tech Eclipse X2 dual HID otherwise. Had wanted to that from before cause that's a lot of weight out front and up high.

Ferdinand 01-10-2009 11:09 AM

650R electrics
 
This thread rules!!:clap Keep the great info coming!!!:ear

ThumperDRZ 01-22-2009 06:31 PM

Hey Guys -

Buddy is coming over on Saturday so I can help him clean up his wiring on his XR650R.....here is his question and I'm looking for some input if anyone sees any problems...

Here is his concern:

On his XR he installed a 200 watt RS stator and a 100 watt 8" race light. He is running 1 200 watt system instead of 2 100 watt systems. He just plugged this into his exisitng Baja Designs system........as a result the 100 watt for the headlight will go through the BD handle bar switch........Ricky Stator and a few others say it's fine.......but others have said use a relay and get the load off the switch.....

Curious why someone suggested a relay for the headlights unless the wiring or switch is under rated which I will check out. Only looking at 8 amps going through the switch. I can understand using a relay when a battery is in the circuit but can't think of a reason with a bike with no battery (except under rated wiring-switch as mentioned). :scratch

Thanks for any input....

XRider 01-23-2009 12:38 AM

ThumperDRZ,
Don't connect the RS stator in parallel (both 100w legs) to the Baja D reg/rect. You will smoke the reg/rect. as it is only rated for 160w. You will also smoke the battery pack. If your buddy wants to run a 100w headlight power it from one of the 100w legs from the stator and install an AC regulator (and a 15 amp fuse). That way you can leave the Baja kit alone. If you want to be able to turn the 100w light on and off you'll need to install a relay. Most switches can't handle the current used by that big light but one of those small (about 1" square) automotive relays will be up to the task. I have two 55w halogen off road lights on my XR. I connected a wire to the high beam indicator lamp to trigger the relay. So the halogens go on automaticly when I switch on the high beam. BTW if you look at the instructions that came with the rickey stator you'll see that they recomend useing the 200w single output configuration for a pure AC system only. And only if you can find a heavy duty AC regulator.

BTW I did the very thing you and your friend are planing and cooked $120 worth of parts. No reason both of us have to learn the hard way. I can send you a schematic of how I have my lights hooked up if you want. Just PM me.

heetseeker 01-23-2009 06:57 AM

Awesome info. I went with the Dirt2street kit but my head light needs to be upgraded big time. So, it might be a stator upgrade as well as heated grips too. I'll save this thread in my favorites and refer to it.....Too bad Los Gatos is several hrs away....we could do some wrenching on the BRP....


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