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-   -   R80 G/S won't turn over, tranny issue?? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440448)

One Less Harley 03-08-2009 09:58 AM

R80 G/S won't turn over, tranny issue??
 
I tried to start the G/S today and the starter fails to turn over the motor. also the kick starter seems to be locked up as it seems to be in a bind. also when putting the bike in gear and pulling the plugs I am unable to turn the motor by the wheel.

Any ideas as what my problem is??

dmack 03-08-2009 10:16 AM

Many Possibilities
 
Hopefully not a seized engine or jammed tranny. How about the starter being stuck engaged with the flywheel? If the starter jammed out, it could cause it (and the least expensive to fix).

Good luck

bgoodsoil 03-08-2009 10:26 AM

good point. most simple thing to check is the starter. pull the seat and the tank. take a 5mm allens and pull the starter cover. I can't remember if you can actually see where it engages. If not, you may just want to pull the starter altogether--still not a big job.

To find out if it's the engine or the gearbox. pull the gearbox back like you were doing a spline lube--enough so that the splines are out of the clutch. try to spin the gearbox with the kickstart and try to spin the engine using a 6mm allens in the nose of the crank behind the alternator cover.

I'm eager to find out what's the dealieyo.

wirewrkr 03-08-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgoodsoil
good point. most simple thing to check is the starter. pull the seat and the tank. take a 5mm allens and pull the starter cover. I can't remember if you can actually see where it engages. If not, you may just want to pull the starter altogether--still not a big job.

To find out if it's the engine or the gearbox. pull the gearbox back like you were doing a spline lube--enough so that the splines are out of the clutch. try to spin the gearbox with the kickstart and try to spin the engine using a 6mm allens in the nose of the crank behind the alternator cover.

I'm eager to find out what's the dealieyo.

Just pull in the clutch lever to determine if it's the trans or the engine. no need to pull the box.
Robert

Mista Vern 03-08-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wirewrkr
Just pull in the clutch lever to determine if it's the trans or the engine. no need to pull the box.
Robert


Oh sure, bring simplicity into the picture. :evil




:lol3

bgoodsoil 03-08-2009 11:09 AM

oh yeah....the clutch.......to be fair, I've pulled my gearbox so many times I don't even think about it. Kinda like getting on the highway that you take to work but you're actually going someplace else--if you're not paying attention you end up in the parking lot at your job wondering how you got there.

crazydrummerdude 03-08-2009 11:19 AM

An excerpt from my R90 thread, when I got the bike: "I hooked it up to a battery charger, and got the starter button to work finally. But, I heard crackcrackcrackcrackcrack when I press it. Hmm.. did it seize up? I am pretty sure I could turn 'er over with the kick start. So, I try the kick start. It's not going ANYWHERE. Damn it. So, I pull the clutch and try the starter button. Now it's just bogging down instead of crackalacking. It's still not turning over. So, I pull the clutch and the kickstarter can swing down now, too.. but that doesn't turn it over, and there's little-to-no recoil. Damn."

My engine was seized and I had transmission issues. :lol3

I doubt your problem is anywhere near as severe... unless you've left your bike in the elements for 25 years, too.

Wirespokes 03-08-2009 12:57 PM

I think a little more history is in order here, like what happened since the last time it ran? Has it been sitting for three years outside with the carbs off, or is this something new since it was ridden last weekend? Were there any weird noises or indication something was wrong last time it was running?

It's highly unlikely the trans or final drive are locked up, but possible. Also, the G/S having nikasil cylinders isn't prone to the rings rusting to the bore. Perhaps the brake shoes have bonded to the drum? Sometimes one of the U-Joint bolts will work loose and jam the driveshaft.

So what happens when the motor is cranked with clutch in? I don't believe the kickstart will turn over the motor with the clutch in, but if the kicker works, that would tell you the trans is free. You can also pull the rear wheel through a rotation with the trans in neutral, and would tell you if the trans and FD are ok.

One Less Harley 03-08-2009 01:14 PM

I checked the starter and it appears fine, took it loose from the flywheel and checked that the starter worked freely. It did.

Does it look like anything is missing here??? Reason for this question will be evident later!!

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3204.jpg


With the starter off the kick starter still wouldn't turn the motor over??? So I pull the tranny...and this is what I found....Look at the metal at the bottom of the picture. Is this part of the clutch or maybe something off the starter?? I was able to turn the motor from the flywheel side, but I did feel some metal binding a little. After a few turns the metal flakes freed themselves. Where could this metal come from. A good thing is that the tranny turns over freely w/ the kick start and at the input and output shafts. I'll pull the clutch and maybe see something.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3205.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3206.jpg






The only symptom I had was that the starter was getting slow to engage when pushing the starter button. Actually not slow it just didn't do anything and after pushing the button a few times it would work.

bgoodsoil 03-08-2009 01:22 PM

wow. well, here's what's in there:
http://www.eoni.com/%7Eflemingwless/...oject/pd34.jpg

You can thank Slope'r for the pic. if you look for any threads on replacing the rear main seal you'll find how to remove it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...hlight=tearing

maybe the spring?

Infracaninophile 03-08-2009 01:42 PM

Are all the teeth on the starter present? From your pic you can only see a few of them. That would be a bit obvious I guess.

T.

One Less Harley 03-08-2009 03:31 PM

Yes all the teeth to the starter are present.

This is what the remains of the metal look like, I just don't know what it's off of???????




http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3207.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3211.jpg

Yes it is from the Bendix, available from motor bins for $25 vs 102 in the states, I wonder if a rebuilder can put it on for me, better than what a complete unit would be. Just got to figure out how to get the old one off the ammeture.

SimpleSimon 03-08-2009 03:38 PM

Looks like a flat washer.

wirewrkr 03-08-2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Less Harley
Yes all the teeth to the starter are present.

This is what the remains of the metal look like, I just don't know what it if off of???????




http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...S/IMG_3207.jpg

It looks like the back side of the bendix gear, in the picture of the starter previously, the bendix appears to be in the out/engaged position. it's not supposed to when not working.
if that picture of the washer like thing is what I think it is, the starter bendix has committed suicide.
Robert

Infracaninophile 03-08-2009 04:21 PM

Which Piece?
 
Wirewrkr:

Which piece has fallen off in this diagram?

http://vervaeke.smugmug.com/photos/4...6_BzBDz-XL.jpg

Tom


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