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-   -   1992 BMW R100SGPD Need help! (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666219)

Grayghost66 03-07-2011 08:23 AM

1992 BMW R100SGPD Need help!
 
Hi Everyone,

On the weekend I pulled the transmission in order to send it out to get the "C" clip installed and I'm thinking a taller 5th gear as well.

Confession time....I am an idiot. I carefully labelled everything I took off for ease of installation BUT pulling out the two engine pins that hold the motor to the frame I didn't pay attention to the orientation of the washers and spacers until they feel on the floor of the garage.

Can anyone tell me what spacers go where on the front pin, inside the frame tubes, as well as for the rear tube. I looked at the BMW manual, Haynes manual, as well as the Clymer, as well as on line Parts Fiche and I am getting conflicting information.

Also.....how the bleep do you get the kickstarter off the shaft at the back of the transmission. The manual says to "strike the pin sharply with a hammer", I tried a few taps with a small Ball Pein hammer with no luck. I am afraid to strike it harder to drive the pin out for fear of damaging/bending the splined shaft the kickstarter is connected to. Heat it?

Any help would be most appreciated. (Still thawing after working in a pretty well unheated garage in -6c weather....like I said I am an idiot.):eek1

The Raven 03-07-2011 08:30 AM

When sitting on the bike.

Three thinner spacers on each side of the rear and one on the right front. The one thicker spacer on the left front.

MAXBMW is your friend #1 is the front pin

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...png?v=03192010

On the kicker. I can't help you there. If I were you I'd send it as is and let the rebuild shop figure it out. I could not get mine off either. I never use heat unless I know FOR A FACT that there is nothing that excess heat won't melt or deform.

Grider Pirate 03-07-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayghost66 (Post 15357304)
Hi Everyone,


Also.....how the bleep do you get the kickstarter off the shaft at the back of the transmission. The manual says to "strike the pin sharply with a hammer", I tried a few taps with a small Ball Pein hammer with no luck. I am afraid to strike it harder to drive the pin out for fear of damaging/bending the splined shaft the kickstarter is connected to. Heat it?

Any help would be most appreciated. (Still thawing after working in a pretty well unheated garage in -6c weather....like I said I am an idiot.):eek1

That pin is a tapered wedge, (just like the pedals on my JC Higgins 3 speed bike!) and they get REALLY stuck. You might want to put the nut back on, screwed on enough to cover all the threads, and beat on that instead of the threaded end of the pin (or resign youself to buying a new pin!). Warming the kickstart pedal with a propane torch might help too. Many smacks with a relatively small hammer seems to work better than big smacks with a big hammer.

One Less Harley 03-07-2011 10:55 AM

Dito on what Pirate said, heat is your friend!!!!! Spray with some penetrating oil. Don't have to worry about heat and the seals as your replacing them anyway.

BTW- what's the story on the kick on a GS, non-original tranny? Kick starters shouldn't be used too much as the shaft in the tranny will bend. If your kick sticks out from the side cover it's bent.

Grayghost66 03-07-2011 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Raven (Post 15357347)
When sitting on the bike.

Three thinner spacers on each side of the rear and one on the right front. The one thicker spacer on the left front.

MAXBMW is your friend #1 is the front pin

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...png?v=03192010

On the kicker. I can't help you there. If I were you I'd send it as is and let the rebuild shop figure it out. I could not get mine off either. I never use heat unless I know FOR A FACT that there is nothing that excess heat won't melt or deform.

Many Thanks Adam. I have been following your excellent thread on rebuilding your GS. Once I started reading, I couldn't stop! GREAT information and documentation.:clap

Grayghost66 03-07-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grider Pirate (Post 15357874)
That pin is a tapered wedge, (just like the pedals on my JC Higgins 3 speed bike!) and they get REALLY stuck. You might want to put the nut back on, screwed on enough to cover all the threads, and beat on that instead of the threaded end of the pin (or resign youself to buying a new pin!). Warming the kickstart pedal with a propane torch might help too. Many smacks with a relatively small hammer seems to work better than big smacks with a big hammer.

Thanks for the advice....I'll try some heat. A little heat...."stand AWAY from the plasma torch".:lol3

Grayghost66 03-07-2011 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Less Harley (Post 15358524)
Dito on what Pirate said, heat is your friend!!!!! Spray with some penetrating oil. Don't have to worry about heat and the seals as your replacing them anyway.

BTW- what's the story on the kick on a GS, non-original tranny? Kick starters shouldn't be used too much as the shaft in the tranny will bend. If your kick sticks out from the side cover it's bent.

Nothing wrong with the kick...I just wanted to remove it so I can get the trany into a smaller box for shipping. I was just thinking that having that with that "kick" sticking out there is more chance of damage.:huh

Grider Pirate 03-07-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayghost66 (Post 15360130)
Thanks for the advice....I'll try some heat. Alittle heat....stand AWAY from the plasma torch.:lol3

Here's a pic of the parts in the area. http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...3&rnd=03192010
I wouldn't exceed 400 degrees F on the kick pedal.
I'm also curious about your bike having a kick starter. My '82 R80GS had one, but none of the R100's I've owned have.

icebox 03-07-2011 07:37 PM

kick pedal
 
Looked at the fiche that was posted, is part 10 what you need to remove? Tapered pins can be a b... Now I have never removed a kick pedal retaining pin on a R 100, but have removed many tapered pins from many other assemblies. Usuallly the biggest problem you have is that the pin is not adequatly supported by a overhanging shaft. Two possible solutions, use a heavy piece of round stock or large hammer head, 4 puonds or more, placed behind the pin. Use a soft, brass, drift and strike sharply. Turning down a drift to the proper size with a hollow for the threads of the pin helps. You have to strike hard, very square, and once. This will take a second pair of hands and is least prefered. The other way is to use a two armed bearing puller, take a piece of alum. or steel and drill a blind hole in the block large enough for the pin to fit into, use a alum. round larger than the pin and turned to accept the tapered haed of the bearing puller, now hiook the arms on your block on the backside of the pin and use the puller as a press. Hope this is not to confusing, but a puller makes a great press for removing pins. In either case a lathe is a real help to fit the tooling to the job. One block goes on the side you are pressing towards, the other smaller piece of round protects the threads. Good luck, or stop by with a six of good ale or a dram of single malt and I will push it out for you.

icebox 03-07-2011 07:55 PM

Brass hammer
 
Forgot about that one, have a couple in the back of the drawer, this kind of stuff is what hey are made for. Dead blow plastic hammers don't develop the "shock" needed to break this type of pin loose. Also if you use a puller/press a sharp strike on the puller screw once pressure is on will often break the pin loose.

Grayghost66 03-08-2011 06:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Raven (Post 15357347)
When sitting on the bike.

Three thinner spacers on each side of the rear and one on the right front. The one thicker spacer on the left front.

MAXBMW is your friend #1 is the front pin

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...png?v=03192010

On the kicker. I can't help you there. If I were you I'd send it as is and let the rebuild shop figure it out. I could not get mine off either. I never use heat unless I know FOR A FACT that there is nothing that excess heat won't melt or deform.

Hi Raven,

I rechecked the engine mounting parts (refered to I guess as "pins") and I seem to have more spacers than the fiche you provided shows. The other piece of information is that I am the original owner and bought the bike new (so that eliminates a PO changing or substituing the shims nor has a dealer ever had cause to remove the pins for servicing)

I seem to have two of the "thick" 6mm spacers, some medium thickness washers (3), and some thin "wave washers. I have posted a pic below taken tonight in the garage.

While pulling the pins out, I seem to recall the thicker 6mm spacers being on the rear engine pin, inside the frame, on either side of the engine - BUT I might be wrong. I rechecked all my manuals (BMW, Haynes, and Clymer with no luck - the Clymer has some really poor B&W images that I can't make out, of the spacers)

If you, or any other 92 GSPD owner, could look at their machine and verify the spacer orientation I would be extremely grateful! I have found mistakes in the BMW Shop manual (a direct translation from German to English) with the exploded drawings being wrong. I am worried about getting the spacers with the wrong positioning and having a vibration. :eek1

jackd 03-08-2011 08:58 PM

Same Problem Here.....
 
I did an engine Re & Re on my '94 GS last summer and also faced the same situation that you are now - where the hell does each one go exactly? I too had two fat ones and two thinner ones - whereas the book called for the one thick one and three thinner ones (MAX fiche). I actually did the cross referencing of the various manuals and like you, found discrepancies as well - this added to my confusion.....

I did notice that I was having difficulty getting the second fat one into position, because it seemed to load the frame. So I grabbed my hobby lathe and turned one fat one down to the thinner size. I then installed my now singular fat spacer in the front left position and the other three thinner ones went on the front right and one each side on the rear bolt. This is the positioning as per Raven and the MAX fiche and it results in a nice installation - no loaded frame.

When I first saw your thread, I kind of wondered if you were facing the same issues as I had. Raven seemed to handle it well, so I only decided to throw my two bits in when I saw the issues you were having.

Beemerguru 03-08-2011 10:56 PM

Betcha someone was in there and thought that everything had to be symetrical...so they got another fat one to match the left front.

Could you post a picture from the side so we can tell the relative height comparison? Looks like you have a few extra washers that are wrong..

Should have 4 wave washers and the 4 (3+1) spacers.

Grayghost66 03-10-2011 11:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemerguru (Post 15372569)
Betcha someone was in there and thought that everything had to be symetrical...so they got another fat one to match the left front.

Could you post a picture from the side so we can tell the relative height comparison? Looks like you have a few extra washers that are wrong..

Should have 4 wave washers and the 4 (3+1) spacers.

Okay, I was just down at the garage and took the following image;

Starting left to right
6mm (x2)
2.36mm (x3)
1.18mm (x2)

Again, I am not sure if this represents all the washers/spacers as it kind of went "sproing" on the garage floor when I pulled the pins.

Can you help me out? :eek1

The Raven 03-10-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayghost66 (Post 15384221)
Okay, I was just down at the garage and took the following image;

Starting left to right
6mm (x2)
2.36mm (x3)
1.18mm (x2)

Again, I am not sure if this represents all the washers/spacers as it kind of went "sproing" on the garage floor when I pulled the pins.

Can you help me out? :eek1

The 6mm are the spacers
The 1.18mm are wave washers and belong on the outside of the frame under the nut.
I still stick with going with Maxes Fisch and replace the spacers the way they are supposed to be. I had a lot of Fked up stuff on my bike....amazing what can get changed out over 25 years


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