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-   -   Another alternator hits the dust and not under warranty (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=706033)

C5! 07-11-2011 05:47 PM

Another alternator bites the dust and not under warranty
 
Well you can add another stator, which just died at 34,000 km., without any reason, to the statistics. No extra load, no extra lights nothing, the only occasional extra load being an iphone charger...
the problem is that it happened while in Venezuela, and although it is a US purchased and registered bike, when you are out of the US, the BMW warranty is 2 years (unlimited km), so if I would be in the US it would still be under warranty, but as I am travelling, it is not... talked to BMW NA and they confirmed what the Venezuelan BMW importer said: It would have to be repaired by a US dealer.
So you all know now, your 3 yrs warranty is only valid in the US.

P.S. no way I will be purchasing a new alternator ($700 on max price list, so I guess must be about $1200-1500 here !!) I will have it rebuilt, as suggested by joel.

Camel ADV 07-11-2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5! (Post 16370688)
Well you can add another stator, which just died at 34,000 km., without any reason, to the statistics. No extra load, no extra lights nothing, the only occasional extra load being an iphone charger...
the problem is that it happened while in Venezuela, and although it is a US purchased and registered bike, when you are out of the US, the BMW warranty is 2 years (unlimited km), so if I would be in the US it would still be under warranty, but as I am travelling, it is not... talked to BMW NA and they confirmed what the Venezuelan BMW importer said: It would have to be repaired by a US dealer.
So you all know now, your 3 yrs warranty is only valid in the US.

P.S. no way I will be purchasing a new alternator ($700 on max price list, so I guess must be about $1200-1500 here !!) I will have it rebuilt, as suggested by joel.

Seems odd that BMW warranty is universal. When traveling I just assumed my 3yr unlimited (Canada) would be in effect at any dealer world wide and that BMW Canada and that dealer would work out whatever they had to square things up. Apparently not.

With 65,000km on the clock, I'm getting a bit stressed with these stators going out on higher mileage bikes:jjen

JRWooden 07-12-2011 05:19 AM

Has anybody been able to do a failure analysis on these stators? If you are getting the stator re-wound perhaps you can ask the guys to be careful when they "UN" wind it and see if they can find out why it failed .... wire burned thru? shorted insulation? chaffing???

If I understand correctly - the way the alternator is designed it runs "flat out" producing all the power it is able to produce all of the time. Whatever power is not needed is then dumped to the frame of the bike by the regulator. In other words there's no way to "baby" the stator.

tmex 07-12-2011 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRWooden (Post 16373958)
Has anybody been able to do a failure analysis on these stators? If you are getting the stator re-wound perhaps you can ask the guys to be careful when they "UN" wind it and see if they can find out why it failed .... wire burned thru? shorted insulation? chaffing???

If I understand correctly - the way the alternator is designed it runs "flat out" producing all the power it is able to produce all of the time. Whatever power is not needed is then dumped to the frame of the bike by the regulator. In other words there's no way to "baby" the stator.

Where did you get that information? That would be very strange IMO.

LukasM 07-12-2011 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmex (Post 16374072)
Where did you get that information? That would be very strange IMO.

It's not strange, that's just how all shunt type regulators work. By running the stator at full load at all times it is subjected to a lot of heat.

There is one possible solution that I am looking into, a series R/R that decreased load on the stator when it's not needed. The problem is that there are no OEM options for 3 phase ones, but there are at least two aftermarket companies offering them for the Harley Davidson market. Compufire and somebody else.

tmex 07-12-2011 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukasM (Post 16374105)
It's not strange, that's just how all shunt type regulators work. By running the stator at full load at all times it is subjected to a lot of heat.

There is one possible solution that I am looking into, a series R/R that decreased load on the stator when it's not needed. The problem is that there are no OEM options for 3 phase ones, but there are at least two aftermarket companies offering them for the Harley Davidson market. Compufire and somebody else.

You are absolutely correct. Thanks.

C5! 07-12-2011 06:49 AM

[QUOTE=Oso Blanco;16371883]Seems odd that BMW warranty is universal. When traveling I just assumed my 3yr unlimited (Canada) would be in effect at any dealer world wide and that BMW Canada and that dealer would work out whatever they had to square things up. Apparently not.

That's what I tought also....

C5! 07-12-2011 06:52 AM

[QUOTE=JRWooden;16373958]Has anybody been able to do a failure analysis on these stators? If you are getting the stator re-wound perhaps you can ask the guys to be careful when they "UN" wind it and see if they can find out why it failed .... wire burned thru? shorted insulation? chaffing???

What is strange is that it is not shorted, the resistance between the 3 terminals reads normal in the order of 0.8 if I remember correctly, but there is no output when running.

LukasM 07-12-2011 06:59 AM

Looking at the pictures of the failures that have been posted, it's pretty clear that it's not just single windings shorting out but rather the whole stator burning up. Chitown has some nice pics in his thread.

Karel 07-12-2011 08:18 AM

Mine burned with 34,000miles on the clock.

DELTATANGO 07-12-2011 08:23 AM

Probably ball bearings.
They used to make good ball bearings, until, you know.........

ragtoplvr 07-12-2011 08:30 AM

Check out Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...EM&refid=store

I have experience with this regulator, it is series type, and it is very reliable.

Or you can also eastern beaver

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html

LukasM 07-12-2011 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr (Post 16374945)
Check out Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...EM&refid=store

I have experience with this regulator, it is series type, and it is very reliable.

Or you can also eastern beaver

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html


That is NOT a series type R/R but simply a MOSFET based shunting R/R.

It will help with problems of the R/R failing that some bikes have, e.g. if it can't handle the load of dissipating all the heat. But it will not help in our case, and might even make things worse. The MOSFET type shunting regulators run cooler than their thyristor counterparts because of their construction, which increases efficiency. But if you are not using the extra electrical power, and it's not being converted to heat in the R/R, the only way where it can go is the stator (and to a minor degree the wiring)!

LukasM 07-12-2011 08:44 AM

Here is a picture of Chitowns stator that matches the way of failing I have seen in other F-series bikes. Great thing about BMW is that they don't even sell it as a separate part, you also need to get the flywheel which doubles or triples the price... :huh

That being said, if anybody has a spare flywheel let me know, I could use it. :D

http://chitown01.smugmug.com/photos/...6_2Ba4n-XL.jpg

ragtoplvr 07-12-2011 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukasM (Post 16375008)
That is NOT a series type R/R but simply a MOSFET based shunting R/R.

!

Sorry you are incorrect. Look at the schematic on the eastern beaver site. Although I can not share it, I have the complete schematic. This is the series style, when the current is not demanded it disconnects the stator and lets the voltage on the stator rise. When regulator is overloaded and overheated it shuts off, and when cool starts again. In the abuse part of the testing, I ran 80 amps thru it and it shut down and restarted over 10 times without damage. This is one tough regulator. Built as a Hybrid and quality construction.

We did a full evaluation for a un-named manufacturer to use this OE. Never a warranty return unless hooked up backwards. Sadly the economy killed that mfg. But no warranty on over 1000 bikes before their end. We do not sell retail or mail order.

No I do not have samples either.

Rod


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