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-   -   Multicylinder 2 stroke into one expansion chamber? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758526)

brianwheelies 01-23-2012 12:35 AM

Multicylinder 2 stroke into one expansion chamber?
 
Has this ever been done? Every performance exhaust for 2 stroke multi's has an expansion chamber for each cylinder.

Just curious.

Tosh Togo 01-23-2012 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwheelies (Post 17810926)
Has this ever been done? Every performance exhaust for 2 stroke multi's has an expansion chamber for each cylinder.

Just curious.

Some early TZ700/750s used a pair of 2-into-1 chambers, but they were more an answer to the flat-sided OEM pipes than an actual tuning aid. They were ugly, but worked.

Two cylinders into a common pipe should work, as long as they're both in synch as the TZs were.

PistonPants 01-23-2012 01:37 AM

Snowmobiles do it all the time.

Piston

JonnyCash 01-23-2012 04:33 AM

I've seen 3 into 1 pipes offered for GT750's. What I understand is that they run great, but give a strong midrange, not a top end hit.

trophymoto 01-23-2012 08:02 AM

like this

http://omarsdtr.com/Ex550suz.html

anotherguy 01-23-2012 08:48 AM

An associate will build these for RZ350 Yamahas.



D.T. 01-23-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistonPants (Post 17811044)
Snowmobiles do it all the time.

Piston


Yep, my old Yamaha Phazer does.

That pipe above is quite a piece of work! :eek1

brianwheelies 01-23-2012 10:24 AM

I didn't think to look at the snowmobile market.

That pipe above looks great!

Shocktower 01-23-2012 03:10 PM

Rediculous how on earth will your GF burn both calfs with out twin pipes :lol3

BTW that 2-1 is sexy looking

anotherguy 01-23-2012 04:12 PM

If anyone is interested I've asked Glyn (the guy who built the 2:1 pipe) for permission to put some contact information up here. Here's a set of pipes he makes for +4MM stroked RZ350's-$550 CAD. He does all sorts of engine work for road going 2 strokes.


tkent02 01-23-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyCash (Post 17811360)
I've seen 3 into 1 pipes offered for GT750's. What I understand is that they run great, but give a strong midrange, not a top end hit.

I rode one, 25 or so years go. Good mid range, good top end, much faster than a stock GT 750. Probably not as good on top as three separate pipes would have been, but I never rode one like that, so I don't really know..

scrambler73 01-23-2012 09:40 PM

2 strokes will always make the most horsepower with ONE individual expansion chamber per cylinder.
As soon as you add 1 or 2 more cylinders to the mix, the soundwaves (for lack of a better explaination) begin to collide in a way that disrupts the whole purpose of an expansion chamber.... Cramming unburnt mixture back into the cylinder before the port closes.

There is a guy working on a 3 into 1 for a Kawasaki Triple that will have interchangeable "chambers".. all made to work at different RPM's. It will be pretty cool to see how it all turns out.
Ive had a few different old-school brands of 3 into 1's on H1's and H2's and they all work the same... Good low end and midrange grunt......but at 6 grand or so, absolutely shut off like you are hitting the kill switch. 6 grand on a triple is where the fun is supposed to start, not stop.

Ive also ridden a buffalo with one of Omar's 3 into 1's and it ran well. Buffalo's were never high revving, so you didn't really miss that last 1000 revs.

gplracing 01-24-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrambler73 (Post 17818378)
2 strokes will always make the most horsepower with ONE individual expansion chamber per cylinder.
As soon as you add 1 or 2 more cylinders to the mix, the soundwaves (for lack of a better explaination) begin to collide in a way that disrupts the whole purpose of an expansion chamber.... Cramming unburnt mixture back into the cylinder before the port closes.

There is a guy working on a 3 into 1 for a Kawasaki Triple that will have interchangeable "chambers".. all made to work at different RPM's. It will be pretty cool to see how it all turns out.
Ive had a few different old-school brands of 3 into 1's on H1's and H2's and they all work the same... Good low end and midrange grunt......but at 6 grand or so, absolutely shut off like you are hitting the kill switch. 6 grand on a triple is where the fun is supposed to start, not stop.

Ive also ridden a buffalo with one of Omar's 3 into 1's and it ran well. Buffalo's were never high revving, so you didn't really miss that last 1000 revs.

Hi guy's I'm Glyn the guy that built the 2-1.

This is still in the very early stages of development, but has shown some goos results.

With the post quoted your are right to a point about the pulses getting confused. But the way the crank is phased plays a huge role in the end result.
As this is going onto a parallel twin that is phased at 180* this is in my favour. The first one was dyno'd last week in Germany, a different design to the one shown here but the same principle.
It did quite well for it's first run only 4hp down on the 2-2 set up he was running and it peaked at 9400k against his 9700k with the 2-2.
I will agree that a 3-1 is asking for trouble and will never be able to give you any top end power to speak of, but the 2-1 with a 180* can be made to work really quite well.
How fare I'll take this I don't know as I am time limited at the mo, but I know that it will be as good as any after market off the shelf pipe currently out there.

Glyn

anotherguy 01-24-2012 12:36 PM

Welcome to the Jungle Glyn. :D

scrambler73 01-24-2012 07:12 PM

Cool Glyn...and I do agree that with 180 phasing, if the 2 into 1 is designed well enough (and it sounds like you are definately on the right track!), you will not have nearly the "problems" with soundwave turbulence that one would have with a 3 cylinder.

How was low end grunt compared to the 2 into 2? Thats actually quite impressive that it was only 4hp and 300 revs down on peak.


Quote:

Originally Posted by gplracing (Post 17821746)
Hi guy's I'm Glyn the guy that built the 2-1.

This is still in the very early stages of development, but has shown some goos results.

With the post quoted your are right to a point about the pulses getting confused. But the way the crank is phased plays a huge role in the end result.
As this is going onto a parallel twin that is phased at 180* this is in my favour. The first one was dyno'd last week in Germany, a different design to the one shown here but the same principle.
It did quite well for it's first run only 4hp down on the 2-2 set up he was running and it peaked at 9400k against his 9700k with the 2-2.
I will agree that a 3-1 is asking for trouble and will never be able to give you any top end power to speak of, but the 2-1 with a 180* can be made to work really quite well.
How fare I'll take this I don't know as I am time limited at the mo, but I know that it will be as good as any after market off the shelf pipe currently out there.

Glyn



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