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-   -   Feedback Needed: Integrated Air Bag System (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797797)

teizms 06-07-2012 03:01 PM

Feedback Needed: Integrated Air Bag System
 
Hello,
We are experimenting with a detachable air bag system for Teiz gear. Attach the air bag easily to our gear via buckles to make it all one integrated piece of kick-ass kit. Remove to use vest with other gear.

Feedback needed:

a) are you interested in such system
b) how much would you be willing to pay for such a system
c) what alternate solution you would prefer
d) any other features you would rather see us implement for e.g chest armor, kidney belt, tailbone protector etc.
e) any other feedback.

thanks

ps: the Navigator Jacket shown is just a prototype - we will have a more specifically designed jacket with features accessible with the vest on.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...14185578_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...26743285_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...45887374_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...76049767_n.jpg

Wayward 06-07-2012 03:34 PM

Here is my only problem with this, they are spendy, unless you got a screaming deal.
Not a bad idea as an upgrade option I guess.. but typically these cost more than my suit did from you.

I probably wouldn't buy one for the price differance.
Just because you offer such good quality and very competitive prices.
I know several people have asked about them in other threads.

It appears to integrate with the navigator and I would assume power shell very well, but I am a mojave person and this would effect my suit more than it would benefit me 99% of the time.

I do appreciate you looking into it, and who knows maybe you did get a screaming deal, but for my money the SAS-TEC upgrade is a way more practical upgrade for the general populous over this system.

Take it how you well, you know I am a HUGE supporter of Teiz and your customer service, this is just my opinion.

I guess I should address your questions directly:

A.) I am interested but not on my Mojave suit, perhaps on a Power Shell or Navigator
B.) For me... probably about $200 honestly at most - yes it's worth more in the event you need it
C.) I don't have a good alternate solution - I would prefer armor but it wouldn't breathe very well.
D.) You make great gear!!!!
E.) 1. A pocket on the inside of the Mojave for music, phone, etc. Still looking for an alternate way to add one :) 2. Option to add a guide or holder for a drink tube so I could just slap it in the back pocket, I know some of your old versions of suits had this, make it an upgrade option since you custom make most suits. 3. Add a pocket on the left sleeve as well.. I use my right one for my kickstand puck and my key everytime I ride.

But in no way do I not love my suit.... best money I ever spent on gear!

Transient 06-07-2012 03:54 PM

I'm not crazy about leash-based airbag setups, though they must be drastically more affordable than the things that AStars and Dainese are developing. As such, I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to pay for it, if anything, particularly if there's a substantial airflow compromise - which there seems to be.

I'd much rather have additional included or optional chest, rib, and tailbone armor. I think those are easy and relatively low cost additions that wouldn't interfere with function.

More feedback will come along once my suit arrives (tomorrow!). :D

bmdubyou 06-08-2012 10:03 AM

this is a cool idea...how does it work?:clap

fullmetalscooter 06-09-2012 03:31 AM

Air bags are 10 years old product . lot's of refinement but really it's the price point that stop me at least from buying. 400 bucks plus unless your buying the new old stock 10 years air vest on amazon.com or fleabay.com I love the idea as log as they inflate in under the .500 mill a seconds they suppose to. After that you screwed according to what has been post on line. If someone came out with a vest that was 200 bucks it might sell but it's a hard sell. More then one makers has come and gone include the first one to the market. Some of there issues where it didn't look cool. Hope that helps .

tkb 06-09-2012 08:24 AM

I own one just like yours
 
Looks just like your proposed product, made in Reno Nevada. I would have to go out to the garage to get the name. PM or email me if you want want more information.

It is a bright day glow color and makes a great safety vest.

kailuasurfer 06-09-2012 08:39 PM

Could be a life saver...
 
Here's a news story from Baltimore: http://www.wbaltv.com/Air-Bag-Like-J...z/-/index.html

I remember this guy was on either US50 or I-95 when the accident occurred.

Here's a link to the airbag jacket that he was wearing (Impact Jacket): http://www.impactjackets.com/. They are touting 30 milliseconds inflation speed. Impact is offering three different models at $395 each. They also service and repack the airbags for $35.

Would be fantastic to see you offer this type of garment at a better price...

andreis 06-11-2012 09:55 AM

It looks to me like it's a good integration strategy, but a few points need to be addressed.

a) are you interested in such system
I am very interested in such a system. I think it's a great way of protecting riders in a great number of situations.

b) how much would you be willing to pay for such a system
This will probably be the key issue. I don't think it's as bad as other posters seem to think. If you offer this as an add-on to the Navigator or PowerShell, then I would think somewhere in the vicinity of ~250-300$ must be achievable. I'm saying this because a Hit Air vest is about 350-400$ on ebay. If you avoid intermediaries and go directly to the Japanese producer, you will probably be able to provide it for about 300$ without any bargaining.

The cordless alternatives from Dainese and Alpinestars are very very expensive. The Dainese one is split into 2 parts : one on the bike, one on the rider. They amount to about 900Euros (1200$), I believe. The racing system is a 3000Euros option and is only offered as an integrated part in a custom suit. Clearly very expensive. Alpinestars has not released a system to the general public yet. The Dainese vest is far more substantial than the HitAir one and will seriously hamper any venting ability of jacket to which it is attached.

c) what alternate solution you would prefer

I believe that simply offering the option to add the quick release buckles to the jacket is enough. You could do it for a very low price (like 20$) and then someone who is willing to purchase the airbag jacket can purchase it from the other supplier. This will ease the risk on your part but will also remove the competition (which will be bad for us... ). If you go down this route, you can have SaferMoto add you as a direct link from his site, while you will add him on your site (a little word of warning, though, the safer moto site is in a bit of disarray compared to the teiz site : http://www.safermoto.com). They do, however, already offer jackets that integrate the vest and this will compete with your jackets.

I would prefer it that you manage to offer the vests at a lower price than SaferMoto.


d) any other features you would rather see us implement for e.g chest armor, kidney belt, tailbone protector etc.

Chest protection is a must, but this can be mitigated by the airbag vest. Tailbone protector is also a must and can also be mitigated by the vest.


e) any other feedback.

There is a lot of talk relating to the cord / wireless systems and deployment times. I will say here what I've found about this issue.

You can split the total deployment time into 2 parts:
1. Triggering : the time it takes for the system to acknowledge that a crash is taking place and ask for inflation from the jacket.
2. Inflation : the time it takes for the jacket to inflate from the point of triggering.

The inflation time is the same for both the cord and wireless systems (~30ms), however, the triggering time differs wildly. Wireless systems can do it in about 50ms. Cord systems require the attached cord, which links you to your bike to reach a certain tension, at which point it will trigger.
Wireless systems reach total deployment times of 80ms, while cord systems require around 250ms.
Cord systems are useless in a number of situations when you don't separate in time from your bike. Such accidents include head on collisions, when you might impact the wall/car before the cord has been tensioned, or low sides where you don't separate from your bike. They will, however protect you in case of highsides or when you hit the bonnet of a car(which you clear) etc.

I believe that you can improve on the cord system by making the cord act just like a seat belt, which will tense when the speed at which it is being pulled is sufficiently high (something like a fall arrester) but I don't think they'll ever reach the level of the wireless types.


My final observation is that, whichever the implementation, you must never compromise the current functionality of your products. For me, the ability to flow air and easy on/off is very important, so I would like for you to make sure they still stand.

teizms 06-11-2012 10:04 AM

thank you all for the great feedback..

price is recurring topic so let me make it clear ahead of time - the "add-on" cost the vest will be in the $400-500 range.

teizms 11-08-2012 09:43 AM

six months ago - this topic didnt make much headway due to pricing concerns.
i want to restart this topic because we are trying to pick up this product again.
i really want to do an air bag jacket...

please let me know what kind of price you want to see for a jacket with typical Teiz specs but also the additional benefits of an airbag.

Thanks

teizms 11-21-2012 12:28 PM

next week we will b introducing a second prototype for an airbag jacket. unlike all other airbag jackets, which seriously handicap the protection of the airbag by pairing it with cheap fabrics, this jacket will feature top-of-the-line fabrics. the price will be revolutionary as well.
we will take pre-orders at a discounted price.
its time to get excited (and make airbag jackets affordable)!!!

Dan Alexander 11-23-2012 05:22 AM

Good going.

I'd also be interested in the seat belt type of umbilical chord, one that doesn't trigger the bag if it's pulled slowly but does engage if pulled quickly.

teizms 11-23-2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Alexander (Post 20102397)
Good going.

I'd also be interested in the seat belt type of umbilical chord, one that doesn't trigger the bag if it's pulled slowly but does engage if pulled quickly.

thats exactly how it works actually!

Dan Alexander 11-23-2012 12:41 PM

So if you dismount at a gas station and forget to unplug the vest it won't inflate itself .... cause that would be embarrasing :rofl

teizms 11-24-2012 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Alexander (Post 20104265)
So if you dismount at a gas station and forget to unplug the vest it won't inflate itself .... cause that would be embarrasing :rofl

correct - from the official specs:

A tensile force of about 30kg is needed to release the key ball to activate the airbag. Normally, the dismounting rider feels a strong tug to know that he/she has to disconnect the coiled wire before the airbag is activated.


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