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-   -   1977 R100/7 Project Bike - Intro and Questions (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819357)

jdc_va_usmc 08-21-2012 08:32 AM

1977 R100/7 Project Bike - Intro and Questions
 
Hello,

A few months back I picked up a 1977 R100/7 as a project bike. I found it on Craigslist; it needs a lot of work but the price was right (or, not terrible at least), and I figured it would be a great learning experience. I'm at a point where I will start needing the collective wisdom of this forum, so I figured I'd start with an intro post.

Here is a brief background on me and the bike for those interested; questions will be at the bottom of this post and in later posts for those that want to skip ahead. I'll try my best to search here and elsewhere before posting questions.

I live in Northern Virginia, and also own a 2008 R1200GS I bought new. I've enjoyed doing my own work on it with the help of GSpot, the JVB DVDs, and the local BMW club tech days (BMW Bikers of Metro Washington). I was psyched to learn that advrider also had this Airheads forum! This is the first major project like this I've ever taken on. I do all the regular maintenance on my GS, and have installed some farkles. I've also done things like new radios and remote start installs on our other vehicles, and new struts, brake rotors/pads, lower ball joints, upper control arms on my Explorer. So, I'm pretty handy but don't have a whole lot of experience with this stuff, so I have to learn as I go.

I've been reading many of the helpful threads here, I've been in touch with Snowbum and have consulted many of his tech articles, I've signed up for the airheads mailing list, and I've purchased the Clymer manual. I'm also very fortunate to be pretty close to Bob's BMW and Capital Cycle. With the help of a friend/neighbor who has restored a few Porsches and VW Bugs, I've started tearing down the bike to get it running again and mechanically sound.

Here are some pics of the bike when I picked it up (carburetors were removed before these pics). In addition to that awful rear case, the bike came with two Krauser cases that are in very good shape. Unfortunately the brackets you see installed are not in as good of shape.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...34226645_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...27708631_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...44187130_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...12958060_n.jpg

It has about 44,000 miles on it. I don't have much of the history of the bike, but from some of the decals it looks like it was in regular use up until 2001 or so. Unfortunately, the last owner became ill for a number of years and didn't do much with it, and then I purchased it from his daughter a few years after his death. So, the bike sat for a while, outside for at least part of that it seems. It turned over but didn't run when I purchased it; the tank was completely rusted on the inside, and both carbs and one of the heads indicate they had standing water in them for a period of time. The tires are shot, and the exhaust was completely rusted out. Inside of tank:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...69098043_n.jpg

Yeah.:becca

Thus far, the major things we have done:

- Removed rear case/ bracket, backrest, Krauser brackets, and Plexifairing 3 windshield
- Removed exhaust
- Sent the tank out for rust removal / sealing / priming (not back yet)
- Completely disassembled, cleaned, and rebuilt both carburetors
- Rebuilt both petcocks
- Sent the heads to Paul Sturges to have one of the exhaust threads rebuilt (that was a fun day :baldy), new valve guides installed, valves reseated, and heads bead blasted (BTW, Paul does amazing work at a great price!)
- Pulled both cylinders, and bead blasted the outside of the cylinders, the valve covers, front engine cover, and oil pan
- Reinstalled oil pan with new gasket
- Removed steering damper (it was shot and leaking)
- Replaced choke cables

Pistons and interior of cylinders look good so far.

Carbs, petcocks, and heads:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...32486784_n.jpg

Current state of project:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...g?t=1345331803

I'm still waiting on another shipment from Capital Cycle, and then our immediate plan is to get the motor, carburetors, new fuel lines, petcocks, and resealed tank installed. We are also going to rebuild the master cylinder and front caliper, replacing the brake line and the piston if necessary. First order of business after that will be replacing all the fluids/filters and then checking out the condition of the clutch, transmission, and final drive.

Long term plan for the bike is still up in the air at this point. Priority is to get it mechanically sound, and worry about cosmetics later. A few weeks after I purchased the bike, my wife and I found out she was pregnant with our first children (twins!), so I probably won't have as much time as I initially thought for the bike, but I'm really in no rush.

I'm thinking I would eventually like to restore it to a mostly stock look, with black paint and pinstripe, the only exceptions being Euro bars with bar end mirrors, and a different seat.

I don't plan on reinstalling the windshield or Krauser cases, so if anyone is interested, let me know.

Sorry for the long intro. If anyone has any general tips or suggestions based on the plan of attack I laid out, I'd be very happy and grateful to hear them. Also, if anyone in the NoVA area is interested in being an "Airhead Mentor" (we call them "Elmers" in the Ham radio world), I'm all ears!

First Questions:

1) When we pulled the jugs, there were no gaskets between the engine block and the jugs. There were no indents for the large o rings that some jugs have. Both upper cylinder studs (correct term?) on each side had small o rings around them, but that's it. It didn't even seem like sealant was used.

The Clymer manual indicates that a gasket should be there, and an o ring if there are indents for it. Snobum's tech article seems to indicate that sometimes neither large o rings nor gaskets were used, only high temp RTV.

When we reinstall the jugs, should we just use just the RTV and the small o rings on the upper studs, or should I get gaskets? If gaskets are used, do you forgo the RTV?

2) I've read a lot about the "$2,000 O Ring", and I'm still a bit confused. When I pulled the oil filter cover, it had a single gasket behind it, and the oil filter o ring was in good shape and looked like it was seated well. I'm going to replace it, but is it safe to assume I can just replace the o ring, install a new gasket behind the cover, and all will be well?

Thanks,
JDC

benthic 08-21-2012 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdc_va_usmc (Post 19409192)
1) ... had small o rings around them, but that's it. It didn't even seem like sealant was used.

2) ...is it safe to assume I can just replace the o ring, install a new gasket behind the cover, and all will be well?


JDC! hello:)

IIRC...

1) - no base gasket, just the 2 small orings and some sealant (there are many opinions on which sealant) - just be sure not to clog the oil passageways.

2) it is not safe to assume that;) does snowbum have a long, wordy article about it? re-read it a few times OR find yourself some local airheads (I did). It is not complicated, but you want to be sure you have measured everything appropriately and add/subtract shims as required. the danger is not having correct oil pressure.

good luck!
spencer

jdc_va_usmc 08-21-2012 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benthic (Post 19409300)
JDC! hello:)

IIRC...

1) - no base gasket, just the 2 small orings and some sealant (there are many opinions on which sealant) - just be sure not to clog the oil passageways.

2) it is not safe to assume that;) does snowbum have a long, wordy article about it? re-read it a few times OR find yourself some local airheads (I did). It is not complicated, but you want to be sure you have measured everything appropriately and add/subtract shims as required. the danger is not having correct oil pressure.

good luck!
spencer

Thanks! I'll take another look at Snowbum's article and break out the calipers for the oil filter cylinder measurements. Do you have a picture by chance of what the shims look like and where they go?

ETA: Nevermind, I found this: http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

My canister definitely has the sharp edge, and no shim was installed when I removed the filter. Where are these shims available?

daveoneshot 08-22-2012 12:54 PM

If you need another source for info and parts try calling Hans Lowe at Hucky's BMW Parts. Google him up and get his phone number, talking to Hans is like having a direct connection to the " Factory ". He knows his stuff.

shaner1100gs 08-22-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdc_va_usmc (Post 19412460)
Thanks! I'll take another look at Snowbum's article and break out the calipers for the oil filter cylinder measurements. Do you have a picture by chance of what the shims look like and where they go?

ETA: Nevermind, I found this: http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

My canister definitely has the sharp edge, and no shim was installed when I removed the filter. Where are these shims available?

The shims come with the oil filter.

Oh and this is Shane I think I meet you at Ed's and I think Jim's

Shane

jdc_va_usmc 08-22-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaner1100gs (Post 19421057)
The shims come with the oil filter.

Oh and this is Shane I think I meet you at Ed's and I think Jim's

Shane

Hey Shane! You're the one with the Tiger right?

Thanks for the info. I don't think the filter I ordered from Capital Cycle came with a shim, but I'll check again. There definitely wasn't one in place when I removed the cover and the old filter/o ring.

John

Pica Hudsonia 08-22-2012 05:51 PM

It's good you found Anton Largiader's article on the oil canister. Snowbum has tremendous knowledge and experience, but his writing style is not what you'd call elegant. Fewer words and more pictures and diagrams would be helpful.

Measure the depth from the top of the filter canister to the flange where the filter cover plate sits (where the paper gasket was). It should be somewhere around 4mm. The idea is to compress that white O-ring a bit. The O-ring is nominally 4mm thick, but it can't hurt to check the actual thickness.

If your canister has a sharp edge, at least one shim is required. Sometimes two shims are called for, if you measure the depth greater than is typical. The shims are about .3mm thick. If the depth is small, you may need the paper gasket (to prevent the O-ring from getting squished too much). As I understand it, the paper gasket is usually NOT needed.

I think the shim (sometimes called a ring or washer) is part number 11-42-1-336-895. It should be in stock at any good BMW dealer. Maybe you're like me and don't live near a good BMW dealer? I order stuff from either A&S BMW in California or Max BMW in Hew Hampshire.

The white O-ring--the larger of the two--is the critical one. It keeps oil from bypassing all the bearings and going straight from the pump back to the crankcase.

The slightly smaller black O-ring is important, but not critical. It keeps oil from bypassing the filter.

EDIT: My R-100GS PD has the two O-rings, one black and one white, because there's an oil cooler whose lines attach at the cover plate. I'm not sure the set-up on your /7 will be the same. If it differs in this area, please disregard everything I've just written--except the part about the white O-ring and dimensions of the spot where it lives. This still applies.

There's also a small O-ring (like small enough to just fit over your finger, maybe) that goes on the bottom of the filter element. The filter usually comes with it attached. Sometimes it gets detached and stays on the little tube at the bottom of the canister when you remvove the old element. If that happens, you want to reach in there with something and remove it, because having two in there at once is not a good thing.

I can't help you with cylinder base gaskets and O-rings, other than to say, "good luck," and it looks like you have a fun project there.

jdc_va_usmc 08-22-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pica Hudsonia (Post 19422021)
.....

Thanks for the info on the shim and the measurements. My bike doesn't have an oil cooler, just the indented oil filter cover with no connections coming out of it.

The filter I bought came with two of the smaller "finger" sized gaskets you mentioned; they almost look like miniature radiator hoses about 1 cm in diameter and length, and the filter I removed had one on each side as well. I understand the function of this gasket on the inboard side of the filter, but does the outboard one get installed as well if there is no oil cooler? I'm assuming that it somehow keeps the dirty oil that's coming from the outside into the filter going in the correct direction (inboard) versus coming outward toward the oil filter cover?

chasbmw 08-23-2012 08:52 AM

Just to add to the work plan:

I would add, remove and regrease both sets of wheel bearings and the swing arm bearings. It also likely that the headstock bearings should be cleaned and regressed. When you are doing this you will see if any of the bearings need replacement, this is all good stuff for a stable bike. These old bikes have rather more stability issues than your modern GS!

Charles

rockymandc 10-04-2012 09:24 AM

Also got a 77 R100/7 project bike.
 
Hi there - I just picked up a 77 R100/7. Wow man, overwhelming todo list. I'm going to need help.

Matt

sebastianhammer 10-04-2012 10:04 AM

Been riding a '77 R100/7 all summer, after a 2 year build from a basket case... so I have touched just about every single component and made most of the mistakes.. feel free to PM me if you need pictures, input, or sympathy. We don't always feel like sharing our woes with the world. :evil:

jdc_va_usmc 10-12-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastianhammer (Post 19745666)
Been riding a '77 R100/7 all summer, after a 2 year build from a basket case... so I have touched just about every single component and made most of the mistakes.. feel free to PM me if you need pictures, input, or sympathy. We don't always feel like sharing our woes with the world. :evil:

Thanks for the offer, and thanks for checking in Matt.

You guys reminded me that I've been negligent in updating this thread.

In the last two months, I've gotten the cylinders, pipes, and mufflers reinstalled, the oil filter figured out, and changed all fluids. Using a makeshift tank, we got the engine running and went through all the gears. Everything seemed to work o.k., but I wont' really know until I get it on the road. I also just completely rebuilt the front forks.

The tank was completely shot once sand blasted, and I managed to locate a /7 tank (and matching front/rear fender!) in FL and just received it. The paint is beat up, but other than that it looks to be in good shape. Eventually it will be resealed and repainted.

I'm in the process of rebuilding the front caliper and undertank master cylinder, and then reinstalling the front brakes. I sandblasted and repainted the battery bracket and master cylinder, and I primed/repainted the frame under the master cylinder because it was pretty nasty from old brake fluid being on it.

Within a few weeks, this bike might actually be on the road! Not for long though because it really needs new rubber.

After the new tires and resealed tank, next will probably be wheel bearings and maybe new spokes since they're a bit rusty. After that, move onto clutch and transmission inspections, lubrication, and parts replacement, and eventually inspect / replace the steering bearings.

rockymandc 10-30-2012 01:09 AM

Oh heck, I just did the same thing, same bike, 1977 and in worse shape. Can I get the name of where you sent the tank too, Thanks

matt

jdc_va_usmc 10-30-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockymandc (Post 19929826)
Oh heck, I just did the same thing, same bike, 1977 and in worse shape. Can I get the name of where you sent the tank too, Thanks

matt

I sent my original tank to Moyer Fuel Tank Renu in Pennsylvania:

http://www.gas-tank.com/

It was full of pinholes once they blasted it, so they couldn't do anything to restore it. I wound up finding another tank in FL that I just received. It's o.k. for now but will eventually need to be repainted and resealed.

Here is the bike as of this weekend. Took it for its first ride in about 10 years, albeit through the parking lot. I still need to get the carbs properly tuned and balanced, then new tires and spokes:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6795981_n.jpg


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