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-   -   New bike, bad tires and a learning curve I've overshot (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831361)

maigashi 10-03-2012 12:12 PM

New bike, bad tires and a learning curve I've overshot
 
Got myself a lava orange f800gs. Loving it all round. Coming off a KLR600 which was used like it should be, with open disregard for safety and physics. New bike has Shinko 705's on it. Nice road tire but the idea that 20% off road portion of this tire is anything more than crossing your lawn on the way to the road is a joke. Anything remotely soft or deep and this is terrifying. front end feels like it is omnidirectional and any throttle at all leaves a cloud of dust and sideways movement. Granted I am new to the available horsepower. More used to the full power or full brake sort of riding. But I am excited to mount my new set of TKC. Had them on the klr and loved them. All this being said, any tips for the aggressive rider on the heavyweight off roader? KLR was heavy the hp was more subdued and the fear of wrecking it seemed lower. Tips for exercises in the gravel pit to help with the transition?
Thanks

Unstable Rider 10-03-2012 12:21 PM

Actually the Shinko 705 is considered, oddly- a 75-25.

You beat yourself out of that extra 5%.... :evil

I put some on my KLR 650 about 1,500 miles ago, and like em for street and gravel roads. Couple times I asked it to climb a little goat trail off road and thought they were OK for occasional dirty-duty, but nothing too aggressive. Great road tire, mine don't care about rain or tar snakes as of yet. Cheap as hell too.

I am watching to see how many miles they go, and they may stay on my "I would get em again" list if they last 4500 miles or so.

Stained 10-03-2012 12:29 PM

Its funny that you don't think that the 705s are a capable off road tire. While other issues are probably going to prevent me from mounting up another set, I've always found them to be a more than capable dirt tire. In fact, I was out with a buddy today, and he has 705s on his Wee Strom. I have to give him credit...he handled the deep mud, water crossings and technical sections of the trail very well.

Me, on the other hand, chose a bad line and tipped over in the mud. With TKC80s.

It ain't the bike, it ain't the tires. Its the RIDER.

Unstable Rider 10-03-2012 12:30 PM

Well put sir.

maigashi 10-03-2012 01:00 PM

I will accept my portion of the blame. Have not tried the tire on hard trail or in the mud. I was in silty dirt and sand. I have a hard time believing that the tire did not contribute to my overall difficulties. Bad technique, sure. New to the bike, oh yeah. Scared, um.... no. But all that being said, any tire can take you anywhere, guys have travelled me world on street tires and little 250's, but to all you purists, I would say, why? I ca ride in sand with the skinko's. I can do mud, I can do trail. Bu why would I want to fight with the bike or heaven forbid slow down, when there is rubber our there that allows me to ignore these limitations.

itsatdm 10-03-2012 04:13 PM

Pretend it is a 500lb KLR and ride faster. I thought mine was a grown up KLX, until I rode it. It does not tolerate timid riders.

All my laydowns have occured because I was apprehensive about the weight. Gas and go applies, because it generally goes where you point it.

Once you got the basics, riding is more mental than physical.

Stained 10-03-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maigashi (Post 19738032)
I will accept my portion of the blame. Have not tried the tire on hard trail or in the mud. I was in silty dirt and sand. I have a hard time believing that the tire did not contribute to my overall difficulties. Bad technique, sure. New to the bike, oh yeah. Scared, um.... no. But all that being said, any tire can take you anywhere, guys have travelled me world on street tires and little 250's, but to all you purists, I would say, why? I ca ride in sand with the skinko's. I can do mud, I can do trail. Bu why would I want to fight with the bike or heaven forbid slow down, when there is rubber our there that allows me to ignore these limitations.


http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/206_0122.jpg

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/206_0112.jpg

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/206_0043.jpg

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/206_0008.jpg

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...09937162_n.jpg

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...67443762_n.jpg

I don't know what to tell you. I've put over 25,000Km on Shinko's in the past two years, all on a DL1000 V-Strom. I've taken the bike in places it should never have gone. Multiple times. I've never fought, or felt limited by the tire. I find sand, no matter what tire, a pain in the ass to ride in. But generally, I don't slow down, (occasionally, I may fall down) but compared to my experience with TKC80s (being left stranded in Labrador) I have found them to be a more than adequate tire. I'm not trying to be ball buster here, but every picture above was achieved while riding on Shinko 705s.

The Wee in the mudhole picture handled the mud much better than my TKC did today - I couldn't put the bike in a straight line to save my life, but the lesser experienced rider had no problem with his tires and a less off-road capable bike.

Give the tires a chance...really. You can't beat them for the price.

TowPro 10-03-2012 05:21 PM

another vote for the 705's.
I laughed when you talked about riding across your yard, they suck in wet grass :evil.
I ride about 50/50 unimproved road / black top. Work good for both location for me.
I also would not want to run them in deep mud, but I do see slime coat on some of the dirt roads early in the morning and they seem to at least be predictable.
I am about to put on my 2nd rear.

But I would not run them on my Dirt Bike :deal

s1marks 10-03-2012 05:36 PM

Definition of Mud
 
Dry Mud. Different from thick wet Mud

Don't mean to bust your balls either but....Shinko 705 great in dry Mud (just like concrete - pic1 & 2) not much better than a street tire when mud is real slimey or an inch or more thick. If it had been raining a lot more in pic 5, shinko 705 would have had lot more trouble. (Nice dry stretches of mud between little bit of wet mud no count:D).

I ride Shinko 705's on my 1150 GS all the time and I think they are a GREAT tire, I don't do serious mud in them (inch or more thick) I have smaller bikes for that.

The 705 will serve you well over dry gravel (as in pic 4). They'll do well over coarser stuff too.

I think to the OP, my advice is differnet. Don't try and bust your balls on day one with your new Bike. Learn it, feel how it behaves. It'll be different from a KLR, it will likely be a lot less forgiving when needed to brake quickly etc. It takes time and lots of practice to ride a bigger bike like that well and IMHO it is a different skill from handling a smaller bike. (Not that I am an expert at either).

The Shinko 705 is a great compromise for your bike, really good on pavement & dry gravel. If you really want to hit wet gravel and/or mud TKC's will serve you better.

S1

officerleroy 10-03-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maigashi (Post 19737635)
any tips for the aggressive rider on the heavyweight off roader?

Ya, get up over the front of it. The throttle is your friend.:norton

Stained 10-03-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s1marks (Post 19740400)
Dry Mud. Different from thick wet Mud

Don't mean to bust your balls either but....Shinko 705 great in dry Mud (just like concrete - pic1 & 2) not much better than a street tire when mud is real slimey or an inch or more thick. If it had been raining a lot more in pic 5, shinko 705 would have had lot more trouble. (Nice dry stretches of mud between little bit of wet mud no count:D).


S1

This is the deep, wet, soupy mud hole we went through this morning. Superior handling from the 705s. Just sayin'

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...95406570_n.jpg

HighTechCoonass 10-03-2012 06:28 PM

I have rode um all... this year and from now on...705's for me and all me riding buddies are going that way too!
good it dirt? hell yet....
http://hightechcoonass.smugmug.com/O.../IMG6098-M.jpg

maigashi 10-03-2012 07:50 PM

C-stain. After review of your picture I believe I have found the cause of our difference of opinion. I would agree the terrain you show there would be fine with the shinko. Not ideal but fine. My idea of off road is somewhat more treacherous. A lot of quad trail and single track. Gravel hills and whooped out sand trails. Not to disrespect that terrain, loads of fun. But that looks mostly like what takes me to my trails.
As for the man who says ride over the front end, is that right? I was always told to throttle up and lean back to get the weight off the front end and ride it through

maigashi 10-03-2012 07:51 PM

And on a side note. Love the skinkos on the road. Just not as an all terrain tire. Great value and pretty smooth for something I can sometimes ride on the gravel

3Rrr 10-03-2012 10:22 PM

Shinko 700
 
Try a Shinko 700 front - much cheaper than the TKC. Have held up good for me even on the road (with the bike loaded) and riding fairly aggressively through some twisties. I ran a 705 on the rear and it performed well. Had a 700 front and 705 rear last year in Moab for the Adventure Rider Challenge 2011. Lots of deep sand, water crossings with some (not lots), but some mud sections. Pretty good combo, especially if aired down. I got a set of 705's and a 700 front on sale, delivered for under 125 total.

That said, I did just put on my first Scout K60 on the back to try out. I burned through the 705 on the rear quickly and wanted to see how the K60 did on mileage for my riding style and terrain.

Happy riding.


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