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-   -   Throttle hesitation R1100GS (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832448)

NW Cascade Rider 10-07-2012 06:10 PM

Throttle hesitation R1100GS
 
So I have been working this issue for a while now. I changed the fuel pump, filter, and what I'm going to call the fuel rail/distributor with the fuel pressure regulator. I am quickly running out of ideas. I performed the "zero zero" today as well as removing the "rose" from the fuse box and jumping pins 30 and 87 as well as pulling fuse 5 to reset the motronic. The throttle bodies were synced not to long ago as well.

The symptom it self is: Under heavy / hard acceleration, or past about 65 MPH the throttle goes flat. No power at all, and if anything I'm loosing speed. However at a low power demand, I.E, riding below 65 at a calm pace, and idling, the bike is just fine. It is a little rough starting when cold, but once warmed up, idles just fine with maybe just a cough every now and then.

The only mods I have on the bike are a GPR exhaust system with a cat delete and a K&N air filter. Any input or help to resolve the issue would be a huge help. I am very mechanically competent. I could just replace all the parts that I would suspect are causing the problem. But I would prefer some wisdom and input with people who have experience with these bikes.

NW Cascade Rider 10-07-2012 06:46 PM

also...
 
I forgot to ask, where do you guys get your parts from. I have had issues finding parts for the bike. And are there any maintenance or mod items that I should consider or do? Again any input would be hugely apreciated! :D

GAS GUY 10-07-2012 07:02 PM

Beemer Boneyard has alot of parts with Advrider discount.

Are you sure your transmission isn't skipping under hard load ? It is a common problem.

NW Cascade Rider 10-07-2012 07:14 PM

I'm not sure how the transmission could skip under a load... Only place I would know a skip to be even possible would be in the clutch it self. But if you care to explain, I'm all ears. But I think its really related to the engine its self.

GAS GUY 10-07-2012 07:36 PM

It has been awhile but basicly the most common Feeling is when getting on it hard the bike feels like it cuts out till you let off the throttle.
There has been discussion on advrider about it You will have to use google and search as I don't remember all the details.

Or does your bike stay smooth but just run out of power??
Could the clutch be slipping ? Do the rpms go up when it happens ?
Maybe the fuel injectors are not flowing enough ?

mouthfulloflake 10-07-2012 07:48 PM

It sounds to me as if you have a serious mis match of fuel to air ratio under those load conditions.

if you remove the rose colored CCP, and pull out your 80 37 jumper, it should operate in its richest ( fuel) possible mode I think.


if that alone does not fix it, try that in addition to the stock air filter.

and if these moderate steps toward adding more fuel than air to your mixture under load do not help, well, then you know you have some other issue..

cat removal, aftermarket exhaust, and different than stock air filter could certainly surpass what the machine is capable of mixing a good fuel.ratio for in my opinion.

maybe you need a power commander, or some other device to add more fuel.

slartidbartfast 10-07-2012 09:56 PM

Did you check the filters/screens in the fuel injectors. You can apply a 9V battery across the terminals to open the injector and back-flush with carb cleaner to clean out any accumulated sludge.

vintagerider 10-07-2012 10:15 PM

Like m-f-f said, the exhaust mods you made require re-chipping or other measures, still I sense that with such a dramatic loss of power there is something else amiss.

Check the tank tank vent by blowing with your breath in to the end of the hose. Are you running vapor recovery (charcoal canister)? Any vacuum in the tank? Unplug the Lambda sensor and try no jumpers. Never had to resort to alt jumper with the 1100, Motronic 2.2 is not the same as 1150.

Since this is a WOT problem could be fuel or TPS.

Clean the injector screen (any tank liner flaking?).

Did you clean the ports in pump plate when you changed the pump? usually will have lots of detonation or pinking about 4-5k under load, hard accel if the mixture is too lean especially on CA winter mix fuel.

FTI if the TPS goes bad then symptoms will be much like a clogged fuel filter with serious loss of power because Motronic has faulted to limp home. Read the fault codes.

Finally, remove the intake manifolds and check them -very- carefully. Built in o-ring on the head side may be gone. Clamp may have been over-tightened. OZ guys have reported success in "repairing" them with o2 sensor safe high temp RTV.

If you pull the plugs don't forget to clean the head airways top, front, back thoroughly before de-plugging. Avoid frying Motronic by not cranking the engine unless a new plug is fully grounded.

NW Cascade Rider 10-08-2012 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAS GUY (Post 19770025)
It has been awhile but basicly the most common Feeling is when getting on it hard the bike feels like it cuts out till you let off the throttle.
There has been discussion on advrider about it You will have to use google and search as I don't remember all the details.

Or does your bike stay smooth but just run out of power??
Could the clutch be slipping ? Do the rpms go up when it happens ?
Maybe the fuel injectors are not flowing enough ?

I looked up that transmission fault you referred to and I don't think that matches my symptoms at all. I red that the problem is in 5th gear under a load. However my issue can be in any gear under heavy load or WOT. I am going to clean the Injectors and throttle bodies today and report what I find.

The fuel pump was replaced because of the flaking in the fuel tank. The tank liner got into the old fuel pump and clogged it up as well as the fuel filter and caused them both to fail.

As far as fuel tank venting, I rode the bike a couple weeks ago with the fuel filler cap open and still had the same symptoms. With regards to the aftermarket pipe. The bike was running fine both before and after I installed it. This surging problem is very recent.

I still suspect that the TPS is most likely bad, but I want to rule out all other options before I go replacing it because its a $150 part. Ill have an update after I clean the fuel injectors and throttle bodies. Thanks for everyone's input!

mouthfulloflake 10-08-2012 06:13 AM

have you tried to set the tops voltage?

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/tps3.1.pdf


while the meter is attached to the TPS slowly open the throttle, and observe the meter reading, it should register a fairly steady increase over the idle setting (0.360 volts)

vintagerider 10-08-2012 07:22 AM

Given the fact that you have liner failure the new filter can again be plugged. Clean the injector screens.

NW Cascade Rider 10-08-2012 09:10 AM

I reset the TPS voltage yesterday following the procedure in this link:

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/zero528.shtml

I just got done cleaning both the fuel injector screens and the throttle bodies. I'm about to go re install them on the bike. I am really eager to find if it helps or not....

NW Cascade Rider 10-08-2012 11:21 AM

So after removing, cleaning, re installing, screaming and banging, and a little bit of probing, I think I have found my problem. I have a bad coil pack and or plug wires. The bike has 66K miles on it right now and some how I'm not all that surprised.

I came to this conclusion because after I got done re installing the cleaned TB's and injectors the bike would hardly start (cold). I then removed the injectors from the TB's to make sure there was fuel flowing, and found that both injectors were working flawlessly.

I then moved on to inspect any miss connected linkages and security of injector harnesses and fuel fittings and found no fault. The few minutes it did actually run, albeit rough, I found that only the Left jug was heating up and the Right jug was getting warm, but very slowly... I pulled the wire out (not while running) on the right and plugged in a spare spark plug I had and found that the spark was a weak orange red. I re inserted the Right plug wire and cross checked the Left jug and found the same symptom. So that tells me definitively that I have either a bad coil or bad plug wires. Either way I am going to replace both.... Again any thoughts and input is appreciated!

slartidbartfast 10-08-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW Cascade Rider (Post 19773764)
So after removing, cleaning, re installing, screaming and banging, and a little bit of probing, I think I have found my problem. I have a bad coil pack and or plug wires. The bike has 66K miles on it right now and some how I'm not all that surprised.

I came to this conclusion because after I got done re installing the cleaned TB's and injectors the bike would hardly start (cold). I then removed the injectors from the TB's to make sure there was fuel flowing, and found that both injectors were working flawlessly.

I then moved on to inspect any miss connected linkages and security of injector harnesses and fuel fittings and found no fault. The few minutes it did actually run, albeit rough, I found that only the Left jug was heating up and the Right jug was getting warm, but very slowly... I pulled the wire out (not while running) on the right and plugged in a spare spark plug I had and found that the spark was a weak orange red. I re inserted the Right plug wire and cross checked the Left jug and found the same symptom. So that tells me definitively that I have either a bad coil or bad plug wires. Either way I am going to replace both.... Again any thoughts and input is appreciated!

Note that the 1100 has a wasted spark and a dual output coil. Every time the ignition fires, the spark energy essentially makes a loop, jumping the plug gap in both plugs at once. While a weak coil will definitely make the bike run badly, especially at high throttle openings, it should affect both cylinders equally. If it is only affecting one cylinder then the problem could lie with a short to ground from one coil terminal, one plug lead or inside one plug cap. Replacing the whole lot is probably a smart move anyway.

NW Cascade Rider 10-08-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slartidbartfast (Post 19774355)
Note that the 1100 has a wasted spark and a dual output coil. Every time the ignition fires, the spark energy essentially makes a loop, jumping the plug gap in both plugs at once. While a weak coil will definitely make the bike run badly, especially at high throttle openings, it should affect both cylinders equally. If it is only affecting one cylinder then the problem could lie with a short to ground from one coil terminal, one plug lead or inside one plug cap. Replacing the whole lot is probably a smart move anyway.

It was firing on both cylinders, it just seemed to favor the Left jug a bit more. But the spark on both cylinders was very weak. And both TB's showed evidence of back fire / miss fire. Again, missing more in the Right jug than the left. I was not aware that the Ignition fired both cylinders at the same time. that being the case, Is there a good alternative coil or a coil with the same part number that would be a good replacement? If I could find a coil that had the same ohm and voltage output that would be sweet.


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