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-   -   Strange engine noise and oil light flickering on idle (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835432)

keener 10-20-2012 07:38 AM

Strange engine noise and oil light flickering on idle
 
04 adventure with 55000km. I did an oil change 2000km ago, no problem until the other day in traffic I noticed this noise at idle with oil light flickering with the same rythem of the noise.

I thought oil level must be very low, no sign of oil loss under the engine or in the coolant as far as I could see in a gas station. Oil level was kinda low. So went to a close by BMW dealer and got some oil and topped it off. It took about half a litter to reach maximum.

The noise went away! So I rode where i was planning to go about 30km away and left it on idle again for a while and it was OK. I rode back, close to home, in traffic I hear the same noise.

Im thinking somehow oil does not reach some parts of the engine may be. The noise is similar to when cam chain tensioners are not doing their job but its louder. With the oil light flickering I am thinking some oil passages might be clogged? When I rev up the noise goes away and oil light goes off too. See the video.

Im going to grab a coffee and roll the katoom to the garage now, may not be able to ride the trails tomorrow :mad:

Any help is appreciated.

See the video:
http://seeker.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...070026_5rmDWNq

keener 10-20-2012 07:46 AM

Sorry correct link to the video is this:
http://seeker.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...897270_5rmDWNq

Deuce 10-20-2012 08:11 AM

Idle speed?
 
Should be 1400 rpm. What did your filter look like when you did the oil change?

keener 10-20-2012 08:16 AM

It is at 1400

Filter looked fine, not wavy.

cjracer 10-20-2012 08:50 AM

I'm having very similar issue with one of our 04' ADVs.

I even put in NEW Oil pressure regulator and cam chain tensioners. Same thing.

I get the same noises even though the OIL pressure light is OFF as you showed.

Once warmed up and underway, it goes away and the bike runs great.

I have a Clear Clutch cover on the bike, so I can see there is Plenty of oil in the sump and it is pumping oil at least that far.

Looks like another winter project for me.

I'd like to get ALL the OIL into the Engine Sump on start up. It will pump it out and back into the tank when running, then I'll know I don't have an oil starvation issue. With the Clear Cover I can keep an eye on my oil lever, like a sight glass.

So, I pulled the check valve spring out of the Tank pick-up line, but left the Check Ball in place. Figuring I can test it and put it back together. (I was about 2,000 miles from home when I did this test) It worked the first time. All the oil drained into the engine. Perfect.

Then I started the engine and ran it until the sump looked normal. Killed it and the oil did not return to the sump? I'm thinking maybe some sort of hydro lock is happening with the ball and seal still in. I ran it the rest of the 7,000 miles trip.

Now that I'm home, I will pull the rest of it out of the check valve soon and retest.

If this is the case and quiets the engine, Why are we having an oil starvation issue on the INTAKE side of things???

keener 10-20-2012 09:31 AM

Interestinggggg... I get pleaaure fixing this bike just a bit leaa than riding it.

I dont have a clear clutch cover but the check valve could be the issue because the noise goes away sometimes even at idle. I let it idle for 5 min with no noise what so ever but on my way back home in slow traffic it came back. So Im guessing this is an oil starvation cause by a sporadically functioning check value or something.

Im going to pull the oil filter today just to be sure and then take a look at the valve under the oil tank. Is there anything else I can check while in there?

Btw, unlike cjracer's case, the issue persists even with hot engine. I took that video after I rode home. I had to keep the rev above at least 2.5k to prevnt the oil light from flickering.

kelly duke 2000 10-20-2012 11:47 AM

I used to get the red light and noise quite a bit at idle. 06 950 now with 50k miles.

I switched to 10/60 oil and haven't seen the light since. Might be worth a try.

keener 10-20-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelly duke 2000 (Post 19861553)
I used to get the red light and noise quite a bit at idle. 06 950 now with 50k miles.

I switched to 10/60 oil and haven't seen the light since. Might be worth a try.


Well that could be it man. May be mixing up all the left over oils (motul, motorex various viscosities) in my last oil chnage was not good idea. Ill do an oil chnage and see what happens. Thx!

Dr LC8 10-21-2012 03:02 AM

Hi,

I had three 9x0...it is a bloody fecking issue with these bikes:deal

First my 950 ADV 04. One day it started out of the blue. Topped up oil and so on. No results. To cut the story short after few thousand kms the filter got completely blooked and the noise and light was constant. There were debris of metal into it. The fron cylinder was gone. Changed under warrenty. Bike went very well for a long time. But one day it did it again. And than once again. Just randomly. Why? I am not sure.
Anyway what I woukld suggest are the following:
Do full oil change. Change the oil filter and check the magnetic bold that is in the lower side of the oil tank. Check if is there any debris that might have cloth the filter (obstructed). Make also sure you run the bike with the reccomanded oil. Than if it stll does it...take it to a good garage.
On www.ktmtwins.com they reccomand highflow oil filter to sort this problem. I have never tried!

With the two following 990 I never had the light coming up but I had the rattle noise indeed! It is usually as soon as you start it. Sometimes yes...sometimes no. Why? Good knows.

The only thing I got to understand is that the rattle, eventually followed by the light, is due to a lack of oil passing throgh the system.

The causes can be various.

Start from the esier one: oil filter. Debris obstructing the filter. Oil pump.

Good luck.

Nic

Gustavo.Ramos 10-21-2012 04:06 PM

Check oil pressure regulator valve. There are reports of a TSB or something about the need to change the valve piston due to premature wear.

cjracer 10-21-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos (Post 19868253)
Check oil pressure regulator valve. There are reports of a TSB or something about the need to change the valve piston due to premature wear.

Did you read from the beginning???

If not PLEASE do. :ear

Gustavo.Ramos 10-22-2012 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjracer (Post 19869499)
Did you read from the beginning???

If not PLEASE do. :ear

Yes, i did.

And based upon the following quote from the OP, the issue persists even after warming up the engine. Had a similar issue with my former 950, same noise, verified the relief valve, issue remained. Verified the oil pressure valve condition, piston was scored, replaced piston, no more rattling.

Is it the same? Dunno, sounds like but i'm not looking at the chaps bike, but we're here to share information and experiences..

:1drink

Quote:

Originally Posted by keener (Post 19860953)
Btw, unlike cjracer's case, the issue persists even with hot engine. I took that video after I rode home. I had to keep the rev above at least 2.5k to prevnt the oil light from flickering.


cjracer 10-22-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos (Post 19871947)
Yes, i did.

And based upon the following quote from the OP, the issue persists even after warming up the engine. Had a similar issue with my former 950, same noise, verified the relief valve, issue remained. Verified the oil pressure valve condition, piston was scored, replaced piston, no more rattling.

Is it the same? Dunno, sounds like but i'm not looking at the chaps bike, but we're here to share information and experiences..

:1drink

Great, thanks for the update.:D So many only read so far and then post.

So what are your thoughts on a bike that has had these items replaces "NEW" and it still makes these sounds?

:ear

Thanks.

keener 10-22-2012 10:21 AM

update, added oil and noise is gone.
 
On Saturday night I found an oil leak around the connection under the oil tank. The one that has a little oil screen. The factory clamp was loss. I replaced it. There was oil in the skid plate but because there was sand accumulated there oil was mostly absorbed and I couldn't see it.

So I topped the oil to maximum, (I might have put a bit too much which is going to mess my front carb through the crank shaft vent), anyway the noise is gone.

I road 120km to the trails yesterday and rode hard all day, no noise at all, the light never came on.

So it was due to low oil level.

But its surprising because I only added about half a litter at most.

bloc 10-22-2012 11:27 AM

Just another data point:

I recently bought a 30k mile 04 950 and rode it back from SLC to Austin, TX. It had only 500 miles on the oil change using motorex 10w-50, when I left SLC. When started cold, it would do the typical rattle until the CCT built up pressure, then it sounded like any other LC8. Thing was, once that oil got warmed up well, it started rattling pretty bad, along with a flickering oil light. Not as bad as in the video, but enough that it made me quite uneasy, especially having to ride the bike thousands of miles home.

The light and sounds would pretty much always go away when revved to about 2500.. but I did get the feeling it was tied to oil temp. Cooler oil = less revs required to quiet things down. Sometimes the clutch would even be really grabby after a hot start.

I get the bike home, and install the updated pressure regulator assembly (not just the piston), and new cam chains because mine were only measuring ~4mm at the cover screw. Along with fresh oil, I haven't seen the oil pressure light once (when actually running), and the idle is MUCH quieter. The CCT plugs still measured less than 7mm so I'm going to get guides and install them at some point in the future..

For now my impression is that the issue is tied to oil temp.


One other interesting detail.. when I had the big clutch/timing cover off to pull the balance shaft, there was a very large aluminum shaving in the sump below the suction (flat) screen. The color of it suggests that it has been there a while (exact same darker aluminum color as the cast, unmachined parts of the engine case under the clutch cover). And I couldn't find any place under the clutch or stator cover it came from through scraping or contact. Besides, it looks just like an aluminum shaving from a machining process. It would seem this was left over from production and only got dislodged and flushed out when the engine started running.. between that and the frequency of casting sand being in the cooling ports makes me thing KTM wasn't that diligent about cleaning the engine cases before assembly.


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