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-   -   Strange Noises and NO-GO! (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835780)

ElMartillo 10-21-2012 11:35 PM

Strange Noises and NO-GO!
 
Year 2000 1150GS, 94K miles. No major problems until...

Washed the bike yesterday. On my dry-off ride the bike stalled twice from a standstill, then quit all together. In attempting to start it, I noticed when I turned on the kill switch with the ignition on the fuel pump would make it's normal noise but perhaps twice or continually. At the same time I noticed a clicking noise eminating from somewhere underneath the tank. At the time it sounded like a small sparking sound. I assumed water got somewhere it shouldn't, and after fiddling and pulling some fuses the bike started fine and I was able to ride it home.

Running errands tonight the bike did the same thing. All the same symptoms, but this time I'm fairly certain the clicking noise that I thought was a small sparking sound was actually the injectors firing willy-nilly. After many attempts to start trying different combinations of relays and fuses pulled, the clicking noises are absent and I've determined the injectors are not delivering fuel. Had to trailer the bike home.

Any similar experiences? Any educated guesses as to the cause and therefore, the fix?

Thanks in advance! :ear

mouthfulloflake 10-21-2012 11:38 PM

sounds much like the hall effect sensor failure

normally its the wires, not the sensors them selves.

they control fuel pump and ignition... basically a crankshaft position sensing scenario..

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ll_sensors.pdf

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake (Post 19870581)
sounds much like the hall effect sensor failure

normally its the wires, not the sensors them selves.

they control fuel pump and ignition... basically a crankshaft position sensing scenario..

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ll_sensors.pdf


Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll check to see if I'm getting spark tomorrow. No spark would be another indicator of the same issue, I gather.

Thanks again!:D

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 12:27 AM

Update
 
Just went out to the garage to plug the bike battery in, turned the bike on to see if anything was different. The clicking noise was back, so I pulled an injector out and turned the bike on... It's firing the injectors randomly without me even hitting the start button. Looks like the crank position, or hall sensors and/or wiring is the most likely culprit.

I'll update with results, but I'm flying to the east coast until after thanksgiving, so it will probably have to wait until I return.

Again, thanks.

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 10:13 AM

Hall Sensor
 
In searching for replacement parts, I have found that the individual sensors required to perform the rebuild in the above link you kindly provided are obsolete and no longer available. Apparently the Bosh replacement unit sold by dealers is available through Beemer Boneyard and others for approx $230.

As you suggested, it may just be the wiring, so I think I'll try the wire fix first.

mouthfulloflake 10-22-2012 11:42 AM

yes, they used to be common and cheap to replace, now they are no longer produced that I can find.

hopefully just renewing the wires will cure your issues, and long term wise, hopefully we can engineer some sort of alternative hall sensor to retrofit the system when the need arises.

Jim Moore 10-22-2012 01:14 PM

A couple things before you start buying parts. First, the HES on the 1150 series is much less prone to failure than on the 1100 bikes. If you had an 1100 I would definitely be concerned about the HES. On the 1150, not so much.

Second, I don't think the HES signals control the injectors. They control spark. Actually they probably have some input to injector signal, but I'd be a little surprised if the HES would cause the injectors to fire randomly, or at all.

kbroderick 10-22-2012 02:35 PM

I experienced a very similar set of symptoms this morning—after riding my bike in the rain on Friday, I parked it outside and left it there for thew weekend (which included clouds, sun and rain). It was mostly dry, with just a bit of night-time moisture left on it this morning. I fired it up and had gotten just about far enough to think "damn, this is a nice day for a moto ride" when the bike cut died suddenly. Side-of-road troubleshooting eventually revealed intermittent clicking noise from one of the injectors, as if it were firing constantly once the key was set to "on" (but not every time I tried to fire up the bike). No low fuel light, which I think suggests that fuel pressure is okay, and at least when I started troubleshooting, voltage was fine (dropped to 12V over the course of repeated attempts to start the bike).

Having the bike in neutral doesn't seem to affect matters, which should rule out the safety switches.

I ordered a new HES from Beemer Boneyard; it may be a pricey step without being 100% sure of the problem, but given my current free-time quota, I think it's worth a shot.

(My bike is a 2000 R1150GS with about 103k on it, BTW)

def 10-22-2012 03:01 PM

You might want to read up on HES and study this...

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ll_sensors.pdf

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 03:04 PM

Update: After the bike sat overnight, It started flawlessly this morning. Makes me believe the recurring problem is either completely random, or perhaps more likely heat-related.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore (Post 19874130)
A couple things before you start buying parts. First, the HES on the 1150 series is much less prone to failure than on the 1100 bikes. If you had an 1100 I would definitely be concerned about the HES. On the 1150, not so much.

Second, I don't think the HES signals control the injectors. They control spark. Actually they probably have some input to injector signal, but I'd be a little surprised if the HES would cause the injectors to fire randomly, or at all.

Jim, I appreciate your opinions and wisdom, and certainly express your skepticism as to the diagnosis, but please follow up with a firm belief in an alternative diagnosis. What else could cause my injectors to fire randomly and rapidly with ignition and kill switch "on", without the motor running? :confused

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbroderick (Post 19874705)
I experienced a very similar set of symptoms this morning...I ordered a new HES from Beemer Boneyard; it may be a pricey step without being 100% sure of the problem, but given my current free-time quota, I think it's worth a shot.

(My bike is a 2000 R1150GS with about 103k on it, BTW)

Kbroderick, let me know if the new part solves the problem.

Thanks for all replies! :thumb

Bender 10-22-2012 03:10 PM

I'd be willing to bet your problems are "moisture where it shouldn't be" problems.

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by def (Post 19874866)
You might want to read up on HES and study this...

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ll_sensors.pdf

Thanks def, that's great info, but a link to that page was posted earlier in the thread! :evil

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 19874937)
I'd be willing to bet your problems are "moisture where it shouldn't be" problems.

The only flaw in that theory is the second time it happened the bike was completely dry, and had been ridden earlier in the day for 100+ miles (a detail I admittedly neglected to mention).

Bender 10-22-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElMartillo (Post 19874985)
The only flaw in that theory is the second time it happened the bike was completely dry, and had been ridden earlier in the day for 100+ miles (a detail I admittedly neglected to mention).

My 1100 did pretty much the exact same thing right after I got it (used). Within a week it never happened again. I have never had trouble riding in the rain, but I have not washed the bike since.

ElMartillo 10-22-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 19875025)
My 1100 did pretty much the exact same thing right after I got it (used). Within a week it never happened again. I have never had trouble riding in the rain, but I have not washed the bike since.

You may very well be lucky, did you have reason to believe your symptoms were water-related at the time?


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