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Sutherngintelmen 11-04-2012 04:35 PM

Mystery Power Outage 84 R80
 
I put a new battery in this bike about 1,000 miles ago - Odyssey AGM.

I bought the bike recently and batt that came with quit on me a few hundred miles into custody. Good news is I was at the house when it :puke1 Jumped it off, hooked up and verified charging at 14v so decided that it sat too many MI winters untended and replaced.

No warning yesterday 7 hours into an 8 hour ride bike stalled when I closed the throttle coming to a stop sign. I'd been riding some of our sportier two lane roads for 45 mins, not lugging along. There wasn't a drop of juice in the thing - I mean flat. About 10mins before stop, gps started 'lost external power' which I thought was jiggle but turns out I was below voltage spec. Idiot light is operational but never chose to glow.

Given some of the NGA goat trails I'd enjoyed, the interruption could have been much more of a pain in arse. Connections good. Kick start turned it over but no ignite. So the sun was going down and this town was closed except for Awesome Bill's Pool Hall, eateries and gas n go. Nearest source for new 12v was a big box 10 miles away so I found a wrecker and waited a few hours.

Was running PIAA 510s for some of the day + head lamp ~ 165 watts.

Gave it a 2 hours of 6amp charge back at the house and cranked right up.

Service manual says charge should be 14v making 280w / 20 amps with charging starting at 980 rpm. Regulator spec'd to deliver 13.5 to 14.2 at 5,000 RPM.

Observations this morning - batt at rest 12.85v, 900 rpm 12.5v. Climbs to 14v by 2250 rpm and maintains to 6,000 rpm.

Possible that regulator or diode has an issue with heat / use? :ear

Pics

Day time fun - top of Hawk Mountain

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...0/L/Hawk-L.jpg

Sun gone down

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...L/Loaded-L.jpg

Juice for battery, a couple of bourbons and fires up.

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...L/charge-L.jpg

Idle this morning

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...IMG_0528-L.jpg

With revs

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...IMG_0527-L.jpg

It did get up to 14.1, just below when I snapped pic.

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...IMG_0526-L.jpg

hardwaregrrl 11-04-2012 05:32 PM

Did you test it under load? Shouldn't drop below 10 when starting. I have an known good extra battery if you want to swap it in.

Sutherngintelmen 11-04-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl (Post 19970397)
Did you test it under load? Shouldn't drop below 10 when starting. I have an known good extra battery if you want to swap it in.

Thanks, Jenna. Forgot to mention that measure at crank was around 11v. Strong today but I will have a back up on board next weekend. Might be bad batt, in town this week so will be keeping an eye on it.

And....

Been thinking I should cary a bivy kit. Haven't had an unplanned woods night though I cary enough for most weather situations. Would be nice to have some comforts in case it's simpler to build a fire and see the next day.

Add: nylon tarp for burrito wrap sleeping, 8oz bourbon to assist tarp, 1 tin sardines for dinner. 2 lbs comfort :thumb

Bill Harris 11-04-2012 07:33 PM

I'd vote for a bad connection somewhere. Batteries don't (usually) go ABM-dead and then recover. Your charge put 12 AH (amp-hours) in a 28 AH battery, not nearly a half charge (43%).

165W of lighting on a 280W alternator should not have affected it so catastrophically, but of the charging system is marginal, it might not be able to keep up. I like LED lights for conspicuity lighting, I save the Halogens lamps for nightime.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586134

An on-board voltmeter is a good thing to have. I like the Kuryakin LED bar-graph meter.

http://www.kuryakyn.com/Products/872/LED-Battery-Gauge

--Bill

Sutherngintelmen 11-05-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harris (Post 19971216)
I'd vote for a bad connection somewhere. Batteries don't (usually) go ABM-dead and then recover. Your charge put 12 AH (amp-hours) in a 28 AH battery, not nearly a half charge (43%).

165W of lighting on a 280W alternator should not have affected it so catastrophically, but of the charging system is marginal, it might not be able to keep up. I like LED lights for conspicuity lighting, I save the Halogens lamps for nightime.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586134

An on-board voltmeter is a good thing to have. I like the Kuryakin LED bar-graph meter.

http://www.kuryakyn.com/Products/872/LED-Battery-Gauge

--Bill

I'll take a closer look at connections, just checked to batt maybe there's a bad one elsewhere.

Battery was holding 12.85v this morning. I am delivering another 3 hours of 6 amps to top off. I like LEDs too, but these PIAA's 'look' right on this bike - not so much if it's on a tilt bed though. :lol3

I guess I could always upgrade :super

Thanks for pointers :thumb

Bill Harris 11-05-2012 08:49 AM

Remember, the open-circuit ("resting") voltage of a lead-acid battery is an indicator of the state of charge. The 12.85V you measure is close to 100% charge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...age_vs_SOC.PNG

And once you get down to 12V, it's at half charge.

--Bill

SOLO LOBO 11-05-2012 09:36 AM

I had a rotor that would fail upon reaching operatin temp, but worked and measured fine when cold... that was fun to diagnose!

RecycledRS 11-05-2012 10:32 AM

I think it could just be that the lighting load and the ignition load were too much for the output of the alternator given the type of riding you were doing.

The combined loads would be well into the 200 watt range and given that the 240 watt output the alternator is rated at is at over 3500 rpm. Your idle rpm should also be around 1150 rpm so that you are not discharging the battery while idling.

Sutherngintelmen 11-06-2012 05:05 PM

I found it! Well, a friend of mine found it. Or at least the problem is on here somewhere. :lol3

I kinda of feel like it may have been the riding I was doing except when I think about it. Most of day was 2nd/3rd gear gravel, 1st gear for some sections (not a whole lot of time - for those in this neck of the woods: climb from Old Bucktown to Camp Amicalola, last pitch of Hawk Mt and Flatland Rd.) Maybe 30 mins all in with Flatland being the bulk and at the end.

I started the day with slab then 2 lane, had a couple of short transits then rode 60 from Cooper's Creek then 9 south to Awesomeville - this is 45 mins revved up curvaceous delight. I run the PIAA on tarmac only - except when I forget - fairly often. Revs would have been above 3k almost all day which shows charge of 14v when it's in the shed.

Shouldn't have been enough lug drain to strand me.

Battery is holding charge at 13.05 volts after I gave it second bump of 6 amps. I'm planning on some time Thursday eve to id bad connections. Wish I could rig multi meter to batt for Sat ride - might give it a shot.

Where's Waldo!!

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...R80Wire-XL.jpg

hardwaregrrl 11-06-2012 05:31 PM

Nice area to ride!! Big thumbs on Flatland. I agree with Bill that an onboard Voltmeter is the way to go. Here's a nice one from an inmate. I have a Stock Rotor if you would like to swap it in and test. Like SOLO mentioned, it was hard to diagnose.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutherngintelmen (Post 19985907)
I found it! Well, a friend of mine found it. Or at least the problem is on here somewhere. :lol3

I kinda of feel like it may have been the riding I was doing except when I think about it. Most of day was 2nd/3rd gear gravel, 1st gear for some sections (not a whole lot of time - for those in this neck of the woods: climb from Old Bucktown to Camp Amicalola, last pitch of Hawk Mt and Flatland Rd.) Maybe 30 mins all in with Flatland being the bulk and at the end.

I started the day with slab then 2 lane, had a couple of short transits then rode 60 from Cooper's Creek then 9 south to Awesomeville - this is 45 mins revved up curvaceous delight. I run the PIAA on tarmac only - except when I forget - fairly often. Revs would have been above 3k almost all day which shows charge of 14v when it's in the shed.

Shouldn't have been enough lug drain to strand me.

Battery is holding charge at 13.05 volts after I gave it second bump of 6 amps. I'm planning on some time Thursday eve to id bad connections. Wish I could rig multi meter to batt for Sat ride - might give it a shot.

Where's Waldo!!

http://sgadv.smugmug.com/MC/R80gspd/...R80Wire-XL.jpg


Sutherngintelmen 11-07-2012 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl (Post 19986085)
Nice area to ride!! Big thumbs on Flatland. I agree with Bill that an onboard Voltmeter is the way to go. Here's a nice one from an inmate. I have a Stock Rotor if you would like to swap it in and test. Like SOLO mentioned, it was hard to diagnose.

Thanks, Jenna :clap That's really nice and I might take you up on it:freaky

How do you diagnose this as an issue? Was it trial and error? Replace parts until the problem goes away or can I make a definitive determination somehow?

Some good reading on bmwmotorcycletech Probably written by one of you guys. :lol3

Am going to order up that voltmeter - very good sense.

And :thumb to Flatland - love that stretch. :jump So much fun. Was interesting Saturday as blanket of fresh leaves made for moments of wonder. :D

hardwaregrrl 11-07-2012 04:53 AM

Like SOLO said, he had a difficult time diagnosing the rotor issue since it only happened once heated up. Usually you can test the rotor across the slip rings, but you can also get a rotor that only throw the OL code when hot. Most people aren't going to test their rotor when the engine is hot after a ride. Do you have a charging bible? You should get one, or borrow and copy mine...:D Rick's gonna kill me. Check your brushes, shouldn't be shorter than 7mm I think, then slip a piece of paper under them to get them off the rotor slip rings. Then test the slip rings, if you have a stock system (which sound like you do) should read around 3 ohms. I can't remember what year your bike is, it matters as to what the rotor will read. Googlefu that crap.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutherngintelmen (Post 19989568)
Thanks, Jenna :clap That's really nice and I might take you up on it:freaky

How do you diagnose this as an issue? Was it trial and error? Replace parts until the problem goes away or can I make a definitive determination somehow?

Some good reading on bmwmotorcycletech Probably written by one of you guys. :lol3

Am going to order up that voltmeter - very good sense.

And :thumb to Flatland - love that stretch. :jump So much fun. Was interesting Saturday as blanket of fresh leaves made for moments of wonder. :D


Airhead Wrangler 11-07-2012 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutherngintelmen (Post 19985907)
... then 9 south to Awesomeville ...

There's really a town called Awesomeville? That's... um.... awesome.

Bill Harris 11-07-2012 06:45 AM

Quote:

Some good reading on bmwmotorcycletech Probably written by one of you guys.
Shoot no, WE don'ts write like that... :lol3

Sutherngintelmen 11-07-2012 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl (Post 19989764)
Do you have a charging bible? You should get one, or borrow and copy mine...:D Rick's gonna kill me.

Linky like bike. I tried search for 'charging bible' et varietals but apparently there are fewer interested in mc electrics than the other mystery, or google is having a bad day.

Battery is still holding 13.05V

I'm riding Saturday fix or no. :D I've got one of those new weigh nothing batts that I'm pulling out of another bike (bought before Joel did his Shorai Adv Batt Test) as a back up. Signed up for a AAA membership (that was a very expensive hook last Saturday. :eek1) and just a very few perfect Fall days to ride before Winter wet sets in.

No PIAA's will be lit during this exercise. If I kill the AGM will swap and run for the shed. I may not be the best decision maker but I'm consistent. :lol3 Be a test anyway.


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