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-   -   Oh no! Valves too tight? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842724)

jackhammer50 11-20-2012 03:49 PM

Oh no! Valves too tight?
 
I hate to start another thread on this but I can't find a reference to it with a search. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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I have a 2006 GSA 1200. It has 7900 miles on it. The PO had the 6000 mile service done in 2007 at his local BMW dealer. I bought the bike in July but have only recently been able to ride it due to health problems.<o:p></o:p>
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I have some spare time and am about to sync the throttle bodies (just to make sure they are right as it has been idling rough lately) and consequently have been reading that it is necessary to adjust the valves first.<o:p></o:p>
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Today I went to adjust them and found all of them to be so tight I couldn’t get the feeler gauge under them except the left side exhaust valves which were correct.<o:p></o:p>
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I was using the .015 gauge under the intakes and the .030 gauge under the exhaust valves. I followed Jim’s DVD step by step as I had it on my laptop as I was doing the procedure. I had the arrow showing for the right side and the wedge showing for the left.<o:p></o:p>
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Before I start the bike again, I just wanted to throw this out here to see if this was a common occurrence, if I should be concerned about it, or did the previous tech just crank them down too tight? In theory they only have about 1500 miles on them since they were adjusted. (If they were adjusted at all). Hopefully no damage was done.<o:p></o:p>
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Would this have caused the rough idle?<o:p></o:p>
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Thanks.<o:p></o:p>
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def 11-20-2012 04:12 PM

Valve lash adjustments are basic to a good running boxer. So, start there and do any further adjustments after correct valve lash has been achieved.

The valves likely did not suffer any damage but, tight valves do tend to run hot.

Remember, adjust valve lash only after the engine is stone cold.

ragtoplvr 11-20-2012 05:11 PM

there is a difference between .015 inch and .15MM

try .006 inch intake and .012 inch exhaust

Rod

def 11-20-2012 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr (Post 20087239)
there is a difference between .015 inch and .15MM

try .006 inch intake and .012 inch exhaust

Rod

Oh no......I never thought of that....let's hope that the correct gauge was used and the valves are OK.

Are they?

boxermoose 11-20-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer50 (Post 20086705)
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[FONT=Helvetica]Today I went to adjust them and found all of them to be so tight I couldn’t get the feeler gauge under them except the left side exhaust valves which were correct.>

Aside from the in/mm thing mentioned already you do know each cylinder has it's own TDC right?

jackhammer50 11-20-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr (Post 20087239)
there is a difference between .015 inch and .15MM

try .006 inch intake and .012 inch exhaust

Rod

The feeler guages were the .15mm and .30mm thicknesses. The motor has not been started since Sunday, and I followed Jim Von Baden's DVD exactly. I'm sure the cam marks were where they should be.

I have not started it yet...waiting to see whay ya'll have to offer.

Gezerbike 11-20-2012 08:03 PM

Did you use 2 of each gauge to set the valves ? Not necessary, but you will get your best adjustment that way. As for the rough idle, they might have played a part, but probably a small part. How old was/is the gas in the bike ? Seeing as how the bike has been sitting since summer, if it has ethanol in it, it could have water in the fuel. Might want to either drain it, or top it off with new 93 octane fuel. I don't think I would mess with the throttle bodies until you are sure you have good fuel in it. And as for the valves being tight, well, they usually tighten up as your miles go up. Not the end of the world.

jackhammer50 11-20-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gezerbike (Post 20088412)
Did you use 2 of each gauge to set the valves ? Not necessary, but you will get your best adjustment that way. As for the rough idle, they might have played a part, but probably a small part. How old was/is the gas in the bike ? Seeing as how the bike has been sitting since summer, if it has ethanol in it, it could have water in the fuel. Might want to either drain it, or top it off with new 93 octane fuel. I don't think I would mess with the throttle bodies until you are sure you have good fuel in it. And as for the valves being tight, well, they usually tighten up as your miles go up. Not the end of the world.

Mike,

As soon as I got the bike home from the PO, I removed the tank and flushed the gas. I have always used higher octane non-ethanol gas in my bikes.

I had some time to kill today and figured I do a valve adjustment just for fun and to get a better understanding of the bike. I really didn't think they would even need adjusting considering the mileage.

But yes, I did use the two-guage method...and I had the angle correct.

I'm sure they are adjusted correctly now, I was just concerned with how tight they were when I started. I figured they be loose if anything.

Jack

Gezerbike 11-20-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer50 (Post 20088525)
Mike,

As soon as I got the bike home from the PO, I removed the tank and flushed the gas. I have always used higher octane non-ethanol gas in my bikes.

I had some time to kill today and figured I do a valve adjustment just for fun and to get a better understanding of the bike. I really didn't think they would even need adjusting considering the mileage.

But yes, I did use the two-guage method...and I had the angle correct.

I'm sure they are adjusted correctly now, I was just concerned with how tight they were when I started. I figured they be loose if anything.

Jack

They almost always tighten over time. Best to adjust on the loose side. When you do get around to adjusting the throttle bodies, read the HOW method, and if you have a Twin Max for adjusting, go the extra mile and take the extra step of riding the bike once you have them set at idle with the Twin Max hooked up. This will balance the butterflies at speed. I did mine like that this year for the first time and the difference it made was amazing.

jackhammer50 11-21-2012 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gezerbike (Post 20088651)
They almost always tighten over time. Best to adjust on the loose side. When you do get around to adjusting the throttle bodies, read the HOW method, and if you have a Twin Max for adjusting, go the extra mile and take the extra step of riding the bike once you have them set at idle with the Twin Max hooked up. This will balance the butterflies at speed. I did mine like that this year for the first time and the difference it made was amazing.

Where would I find that HOW method?

Rockmuncher 11-21-2012 05:28 AM

HOW is Hall of Wisdom at the bottom of the page. Lots of good stuff in there.

eric2 11-21-2012 05:55 AM

Too tightly adjusted valves will definitely affect the idle. the warmer it gets, the worse the idle will be, it won't idle at all when it gets hot. If it runs too long this way you can damage the valves. Next time you have the valve cover off take a good look at the exhaust valves and see if they've changed color, they can actually turn blue, as well as the rocker arms. Then you want to check compression to see if a valve\seat damage has occurred.

Found this all out on a, errr, ummmm.........friends R65ls

ragtoplvr 11-21-2012 05:58 AM

Valves get tighter when the engine is cold and looser as the engine is hotter when it is not running. This is because aluminum expands more than steel. So you are supposed to set the valves at about 70 degrees F.

When the engine is running there is a hot valve in the exhaust, so it can close a little at high load, which is why the exhaust gap is bigger.

You have tolerance in there. Intake over .004 and exhaust over .008 and you will never have a problem. I normally set mine at .005 and .010 and it does make a slight difference in power. Mine is settled in, and almost never changes. There are some that like them way loose, like .010 and .020 for better slow speed torque.

The most important thing is all intake and all exhaust should be equal, the absolute measurement is less critical. A .001 difference between one side and the other will make surging worse.

Rod

jdub 11-21-2012 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2 (Post 20090114)
Too tightly adjusted valves will definitely affect the idle. the warmer it gets, the worse the idle will be, it won't idle at all when it gets hot. If it runs too long this way you can damage the valves. Next time you have the valve cover off take a good look at the exhaust valves and see if they've changed color, they can actually turn blue, as well as the rocker arms. Then you want to check compression to see if a valve\seat damage has occurred.

Found this all out on a, errr, ummmm.........friends R65ls

Exactly what happened on my '82 R65; at 65k miles it suffered the "exhaust valve receding into the valve seat" issue that afllicted many Airheads of that era. About 2k miles after a valve adjustment the idle got worse and worse, and when I pulled the valve cover there was zero clearance on the exhausts. I pulled the heads, had new and improved seats and valves installed and still ran great when I sold it at 124k miles.

JimVonBaden 11-21-2012 04:31 PM

Before you get excited, I would suggest you try checking them again. Keep in mind that if ALL of the valves are tight it is likely that either you have the motor 180 off TDC for each cylinder, or you would have at least half the valves loose.

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/images/06...rrow-right.jpg
The arrow on the right cylinder at 90° allows you to adjust the right set of valves.

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/images/18-rotate-motor.jpg

The cam, still on the right side, at 90° allows you to set the left bank of valves.

The intake (rear valves) are at .15mm and the exhaust (forward valves) ar at .30mm (or as close as you can get via feeler guages)

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/images/08a-feeler-gages.jpg

Jim :brow


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