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-   -   1150 running rough under 3k RPM (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843333)

alainmax 11-23-2012 12:24 PM

1150 running rough under 3k RPM
 
Hello all,

I cal the experts for an 1150 GS 2004 running rough at low RPMs then again some missing/skipping at high RPM . The higher RPM could be from me not going up there that often ...
mid range seem fairly good

here is what i ve done so far
1) clean the air filter
2) clean the spark plugs ( i have pics if you would like to see them...)
3) disconnect the charcoal canister to see if it makes a difference : no
4) check the seating of the throttle cables : looks fine to me
5)drove with fuel cap open to see if vent issue : no difference
6)disconnect the bottom plugs to see if it would run worse (thinking sticks) : no difference
7) added techron to clean the injectors : no difference
8) did a quick TB synch, but i do not have a twinmax, so used a home made manometer with water ( difference at idle is < 1.5 inch on the manometer). One BBS screw is IN a 1/4 turn more than the other ( L side if sitting on the bike)
9) NEW fuel filter fitted
10) new alternator belt ( unrelated to this issue), just got to 36K

Maestro Jim Von baden told me to check for air leaks ( i do not see any but not easy to find i suppose) and check for throttle cable deflection at the throttle body ( i have > 1 mm) so they do not look too tight

BTW, does the ABS module need to be removed in order to change the throttle cables??? they seem buried way under there !!


What am i missing? thank you for any input and i appreciate you took the time to read this

roger 04 rt 11-23-2012 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20104182)
Hello all,

I cal the experts for an 1150 GS 2004 running rough at low RPMs then again some missing/skipping at high RPM . The higher RPM could be from me not going up there that often ...
mid range seem fairly good

here is what i ve done so far
1) clean the air filter
2) clean the spark plugs ( i have pics if you would like to see them...)
3) disconnect the charcoal canister to see if it makes a difference : no
4) check the seating of the throttle cables : looks fine to me
5)drove with fuel cap open to see if vent issue : no difference
6)disconnect the bottom plugs to see if it would run worse (thinking sticks) : no difference
7) added techron to clean the injectors : no difference
8) did a quick TB synch, but i do not have a twinmax, so used a home made manometer with water ( difference at idle is < 1.5 inch on the manometer). One BBS screw is IN a 1/4 turn more than the other ( L side if sitting on the bike)
9) NEW fuel filter fitted
10) new alternator belt ( unrelated to this issue), just got to 36K

Maestro Jim Von baden told me to check for air leaks ( i do not see any but not easy to find i suppose) and check for throttle cable deflection at the throttle body ( i have > 1 mm) so they do not look too tight

BTW, does the ABS module need to be removed in order to change the throttle cables??? they seem buried way under there !!


What am i missing? thank you for any input and i appreciate you took the time to read this

You seem to have done a very thorough job. Here are some added possibilities:

1) Stick Coils bad. Either or both. You can search this site for ways to test them. Just saw that you did this.
2) HES sensor defective or out of adjustment.
3) O2 sensor bad. Reset Motronic, ride. Disconnect O2 sensor under tank, reset, ride. compare.
4) Your bike doesn't run well with your fuel at stock setting of the O2 sensor (14.7). Reset Motronic, ride compare performance before 1 bar on oil temp display to ride after fully warm. Let us know.

RB

pcwirepro 11-23-2012 03:16 PM

Stick coils
 
Pull the upper plug wires one at a time with the engine running and see if there is a noticeable difference. If the stick coil is good the engine wile stumble. If there is no difference then it's likely defective. You can swap stick coils from side to side to confirm.

mudmullet 11-23-2012 05:42 PM

Sounds like the problems I had before I replaced the stick coils.

alainmax 11-23-2012 05:55 PM

Thank you
Trying to locate the o2 sensor connector under the tank. Where is that thing located EXACTLY ??

What does it looks like?

I have the tank off now so that the first thing i wanna do then i ll recheck the sticks (however i already checked them a couple weeks ago). Will re test though

roger 04 rt 11-23-2012 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20105782)
Thank you
Trying to locate the o2 sensor connector under the tank. Where is that thing located EXACTLY ??

What does it looks like?

I have the tank off now so that the first thing i wanna do then i ll recheck the sticks (however i already checked them a couple weeks ago). Will re test though

It is a two inch long, round connector 1/2 inch in diameter. It is on the right hand frame beside the alternator, usually tie wrapped to the frame. It has four wires. It is hard to get apart because it has two tabs that hold it together. Be careful.

pcwirepro 11-23-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20105782)
Thank you
Trying to locate the o2 sensor connector under the tank. Where is that thing located EXACTLY ??

What does it looks like?

I have the tank off now so that the first thing i wanna do then i ll recheck the sticks (however i already checked them a couple weeks ago). Will re test though

You mention the lower (secondary) plugs in your OP and mention suspecting the sticks. The secondary plugs make little to no difference at idle. How did you test the sticks?

alainmax 11-23-2012 07:25 PM

Yes i just unplugged the secondary sprk plug, on side at a time and rev'ed up to 3k rpm then let idle and see if it was skipping beats...

You probably know a better way, feel free to enlighten this brain...

Thanks Roger, i thought it was that. By now i already re mounted the tank and was hoping that the reset on fuse #5 would do it..

It seem better but it could all be in my head right now. it raining hard to tinker outside ( already wet from the 1 mile...)

roger 04 rt 11-23-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20106292)
Yes i just unplugged the secondary sprk plug, on side at a time and rev'ed up to 3k rpm then let idle and see if it was skipping beats...

You probably know a better way, feel free to enlighten this brain...

Thanks Roger, i thought it was that. By now i already re mounted the tank and was hoping that the reset on fuse #5 would do it..

It seem better but it could all be in my head right now. it raining hard to tinker outside ( already wet from the 1 mile...)

Sometime when it's cold, see how it runs before 1 bar on the temp display its getting some extra fuel then.

alainmax 11-23-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger 04 rt (Post 20106309)
Sometime when it's cold, see how it runs before 1 bar on the temp display its getting some extra fuel then.

I checked that and it seemed a little worse which choke on

pcwirepro 11-23-2012 07:53 PM

You ain't got no choke
 
Whatchoo talkin bout Willis?

alainmax 11-23-2012 08:21 PM

i meant idle accelerator.......sorry


picky picky

roger 04 rt 11-24-2012 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20106428)
I checked that and it seemed a little worse which choke on

Sorry, I meant start it from fully cold and immediately go for a ride and see if you have the rough running spots right around the time the first bar shows up on the temp display. At that time, the bike has warmed up enough to run well but it is before it enters Closed Loop, AND, there is a few percent of fuel enrichment. I've found right at that time most bikes with rough running issues that are caused by lean mixtures run better. If the problem is due to your HES OR Stick coils or something else it won't run any better.

pcwirepro 11-24-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alainmax (Post 20106292)
Yes i just unplugged the secondary sprk plug, on side at a time and rev'ed up to 3k rpm then let idle and see if it was skipping beats...

You probably know a better way, feel free to enlighten this brain...

Thanks Roger, i thought it was that. By now i already re mounted the tank and was hoping that the reset on fuse #5 would do it..

It seem better but it could all be in my head right now. it raining hard to tinker outside ( already wet from the 1 mile...)

See response #3. I still haven't heard the stick coils having been ruled out. The secondary (lower) plugs make no discernible difference at idle and in my case made next to no difference in performance. I made a canyon run without them connected and could hardly tell they were missing.

alainmax 11-24-2012 07:04 PM

well Roger, it seem to run better in open loop and started running a little rougher when one first bar ( temp) came on....
had little time today, will try to find some tomorrow to confirm...i did all this without the idle accelerator(:wink:) on...


If indeed confirmed, i suppose i will take the tank off and disconnect the O2 sensor connection , reassemble and try again, right? if at that point it runs fine, do i just change the O2 sensor ( + module reset)?

thanks Wirepro, I have not tried the plug dance yet

Again thank you much for your help


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