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-   -   Broken tap or drill bit (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=880382)

Half Fast 04-19-2013 04:29 PM

Broken tap or drill bit
 
When drilling or tapping a hole, what are the options for removing a broken drill bit or broken tap that is stuck in the hole?

I just finished a project that involved lots of new threaded fasteners and each time I held my breath thinking "Man, if I break this tap/bit I'm screwed". All went well but what to do if the worst happens?

Motomedic 04-19-2013 04:31 PM

An EDM (electrical discharge machining) machine is usually the best tool for the job.

Half Fast 04-19-2013 06:50 PM

That's what I was thinking. I was curious to ask if there were any other options but EDM was all I could think of.

Thanks.

Daryl_Stamp 04-19-2013 06:55 PM

It's a PITA for sure, EDM is ideal solution but generally out of the reach of backyard or home workshop types.

A former colleague always had reasonable success by tapping around radially with a punch if anything was sticking out, but the punch usually gets pretty chewed up.

Another guy that worked with me showed me a trick when we had a tap break off in a mold that was in for a rush job,
We put pins in between the flutes of the tap and kept wiggling it around until it came out, but it required a lot of expletives and angst to finally get it out. IIRC, it may have been old-school bobby pins, but for sure the tap wasn't jammed too bad, but nothing was sticking out either.

Also saw a guy weld a nut onto the protruding piece of broken stud or tap, combination of heat cycle and better leverage worked ok on my brothers diesel rig.

No one size fits all solution though for sure.

silverbandit1 04-19-2013 07:09 PM

I have removed broken HSS Taps with a carbide end mill and I have used a acid product ( available at machine shop supply ) if the tap broke in an aluminum part - otherwise EDM

Beezer 04-19-2013 07:50 PM

only other one I can add is the cutting torch. if the tap is broken off in aluminum you can blow it out with the ol fire ax. aluminum transfers heat way better than steel so if you heat the steel really quick you can burn it out of the hole with not too much damage to the aluminum, though you will probably need a helicoil. and yes, I have actually done this.

best thing is to not need this kind of anguish in the first place. tap with a good lube, turn in a half, maybe 3/4 of a turn, and then out a quarter, keep the chips cleaned out of the flutes.

as for broken studs... first is a left handed drill, if that doesn't work I try to drill it down the center "on size" , if I screw that up I helicoil it. I really don't even bother with easy outs anymore. a broken ez can be drilled with a cobalt though

DaymienRules 04-19-2013 08:56 PM

I've successfully used a broken tap extractor tool once before. it looks kind of like a socket with teeth that engage the reliefs in the tap.

Anorak 04-19-2013 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaymienRules (Post 21227965)
I've successfully used a broken tap extractor tool once before. it looks kind of like a socket with teeth that engage the reliefs in the tap.

Yes! True relief when it works. Patience is very important.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2010Q3/TapX.png

kantuckid 04-20-2013 05:58 AM

Seriously, anything said is purely hit & miss until you fully describe the situation. We know not if it's a tap or a bit and nothing about the location or materials involved. It can be relatively easy or nearly impossible based on the total situation of factors. Lots of taps & bits get removed with no use of EDM. :ear

S/W 04-20-2013 07:23 PM

broken taps
 
I have used almost all of these methods, except for the EDM and acid, with varying success. I have always had the best results with a carbide end mill. Of course, how many home shops
have carbide endmills? Probably a small percentage.
Another method I have used is to shatter the tap with a center punch. This works pretty good if the tap broke because it is brittle or improperly heat treated. The center puch should be a good tool steel for it to work.
Prevention is the best course of action. Buying cheap taps will get you into trouble, as they aren't as sharp and might be brittle. If they aren't sharp, they will jam and break. Also, backing the tap out until the "chip" breaks off frequently will help keep the tap from jaming, and of course use plenty of taping fluid. Examine your tap for broken or chiped teeth before you start

Flashmo 04-20-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/W (Post 21233072)
.
Another method I have used is to shatter the tap with a center punch.

I have tried that method...it always left a broken tap in a completely f'ed up hole that could no longer be removed with any method other than our portable EDM.

I could see it working in thin plate where you only need to break a couple threads of the tap to get it to come out the other side. It has not worked for me in heavier materials.

To me, it is not even a viable option any more...YMMV.

S/W 04-21-2013 06:46 PM

broken taps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashmo (Post 21233284)
I have tried that method...it always left a broken tap in a completely f'ed up hole that could no longer be removed with any method other than our portable EDM.

I could see it working in thin plate where you only need to break a couple threads of the tap to get it to come out the other side. It has not worked for me in heavier materials.

To me, it is not even a viable option any more...YMMV.



Sorry it hasn't worked for you,I have done it a bunch of times.

ohgood 04-21-2013 09:11 PM

drill the back side of the hole if possible, then whoop the drill bit of tap from there.

once its out, drill and tap next size (or two) up and chinese knurl the back side of the tapped hole.

then heat all thread and force it through, all the way with a little hanging out.

hack off the all thread, both ends.

center punch around the all thread, and the edge of the all thread. a lot.

peen the all thread flat.

file flat ( the edge cuts best and planes )

drill and tap the new hole, mo carefully.

most folks can't spot the repair. ;-)

Stan_R80/7 04-22-2013 06:16 AM

The broken tap problem lead to the Tapmatic:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=317-0726&cm_mmc=Didit-_-SEM-_-GglProd-_-GglProd&003=18299132&010=317-0726&{copy:002}&{copy:004}&{copy:005}&10=317-0726&gclid=CK2G1Zis3rYCFYMWMgodNWAAjg

Which is a wonderful tool if you are tapping many holes (but a bit pricey for the HSM). I have always tapped holes by hand using a guide or adapting a mill for the purpose - with plenty of cutting fluid and judging by hand force taps don't bread - but it is slow.

I think the job would decide how to remove the broken tap. Generally, work is done for profit and time is money so the quicker the tap is removed and threads formed the better. Machine shop forums are a better place to ask this question if you are looking for experience and ideas. YMMV.

ttpete 04-22-2013 02:54 PM

A few things about taps:

Always buy and use high speed steel taps. They're ground shiny all over and marked HSS. They're tough and strong. Carbon steel taps are cheaper, but they are hard as glass and brittle and break easily.

Taps do get dull after some use. When this occurs, don't use that tap to cut new threads, especially in aluminum or brass. You can use it to clean gasket sealer and dirt out of a threaded hole. Don't do this with a sharp tap if you want it to remain sharp.

Always use a tapping fluid. Kerosene works well for aluminum. I like Rapid-Tap for ferrous metals. Stainless steel needs a different lube. I've used Anchorlube for many years. It comes in a squeeze bottle and looks like green snot.

Always use a proper tap wrench so no side loading is placed on the tap. Back the tap up every rotation to break the chips off.


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