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-   -   Runs poor at around 6000rpm and higher (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=899978)

Magnus73 07-01-2013 04:48 AM

Runs poor at around 6000rpm and higher
 
Hello there,

I've been trying to search but couldnt come up with anything, I've just bougth a 2004 950 adventure with around 21200 km (
13173mile) on the meter so it hasnt gone far, it has had 2 owners and got all the services done.

The previous owner had a problem with it started to run poorly at around 6000rpm and higher so he had someone fix it by raise the needles a bit just before I bought it.

But now it still runs poorly at around 6000rpm for me (didn't test it a high speed when I bought it...) but it runs perfect up to around 6000, Power wheelies without problems at first gear but at around 6000rpm it begins to cough bad and at higher rpm its the same, NO backfire just cough!

I know it's hard to say what it could be, but some tips maybe? the carburators has been cleaned when he raised the needles, oil, sparkplugs are changed recently.

:(:

Edit: I can ad that it needs almost full choke, even when it's warm outside and needs it for a good amount of time!

Orangecicle 07-01-2013 05:02 AM

This is the best Keihin tuning chart that I can find online:


Your issue is with 3/4 throttle plus, right? So, the main jet is really where you should be looking to tune. If you are happy with the bike other than at 3/4 plus throttle, start making changes to the mains. If the jets are stock, you probably want to try going larger in the mains. My 2005 KTM is generally stock other than 990R cams. My carbs are set to the stock settings, but my mains are 162 front and 168 rear. The bike runs very well.

Whatever you do, do not go the Factory Pro route and put in really large jets. F.P. recommends 45 idle jets, and mains in the range of 175 front and 180 rear. Set like that, the bike is so rich that it will not run properly. It just doesn't work.

Best of luck.

Magnus73 07-01-2013 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangecicle (Post 21762347)
This is the best Keihin tuning chart that I can find online:


Your issue is with 3/4 throttle plus, right? So, the main jet is really where you should be looking to tune. If you are happy with the bike other than at 3/4 plus throttle, start making changes to the mains. If the jets are stock, you probably want to try going larger in the mains. My 2005 KTM is generally stock other than 990R cams. My carbs are set to the stock settings, but my mains are 162 front and 168 rear. The bike runs very well.

Whatever you do, do not go the Factory Pro route and put in really large jets. F.P. recommends 45 idle jets, and mains in the range of 175 front and 180 rear. Set like that, the bike is so rich that it will not run properly. It just doesn't work.

Best of luck.


Thank you, I dont know if its just at 3/4 throttle it seems like its at 6000rpm with full throttle or less, but I will try and look into what you said! :)

If I manage to take the bike apart that is... ;)

Orangecicle 07-01-2013 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus73 (Post 21762540)
Thank you, I dont know if its just at 3/4 throttle it seems like its at 6000rpm with full throttle or less, but I will try and look into what you said! :)

If I manage to take the bike apart that is... ;)

The general statement is that anything above 4000 RPM is mostly impacted by main jets, but you can see from the chart that other things play in as we'll. is you air filter setup stock? What's your elevation? Is your SAS removed? Is the canister still attached?

Getting the carbs out is challenging the first time. Just go slow.

Magnus73 07-01-2013 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangecicle (Post 21762902)
The general statement is that anything above 4000 RPM is mostly impacted by main jets, but you can see from the chart that other things play in as we'll. is you air filter setup stock? What's your elevation? Is your SAS removed? Is the canister still attached?

Getting the carbs out is challenging the first time. Just go slow.

I havenít checked the air filter yet, it's stock but I know they didnít change it the last service though!<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Elevation is well normal? 190 meters above sea level : )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Havenít checked the SAS yet, and what canister? : )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
But are you saying that I have to change jets?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Sorry for all the questions! But I do appreciate you taking the time to help me! <o:p></o:p>

Orangecicle 07-01-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus73 (Post 21763009)
I havenít checked the air filter yet, it's stock but I know they didnít change it the last service though!<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Elevation is well normal? 190 meters above sea level : )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Havenít checked the SAS yet, and what canister? : )<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
But are you saying that I have to change jets?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Sorry for all the questions! But I do appreciate you taking the time to help me! <o:p></o:p>

No worries. Go to www.ktm950.info and look around. There is a great deal of information there. Here is one page that is very useful: http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...terectomy.html

The canister is a charcoal canister put on the bike at the factory. It causes some problems, and it is best to remove it. SAS is the Supplemental Air System, which pumps fresh air into the exhaust so make sure the catalytic converters in the exhaust work properly. If your bike has stock exhaust, it needs the SAS or the catalytic converts will eventually stop up. If your bike has aftermarket exhaust, it does not need the SAS, and it is best to remove it. It restricts the exhaust by adding addition pressure.

If you want to pull the carbs and increase the main jet size, yes, you will need replacement main jets. These are available from many sources, including KTM. Factory Pro also sells jetting kits that include a variety of main jets so that you can experiment. Just DO NOT try to change out the idle jets and put the F.P. 45 idle jets. That is a mistake.

renogeorge 07-01-2013 07:17 AM

You said the previous owner raised the needles, richening the mixture. Warmer weather would make the bike run even richer. Needle position makes the biggest difference. I think I would drop the needles one clip (raise the clip) to lean it back out a little.

My 950 also needed choke and time with the choke on to warm up.

Once jetted properly these bikes shouldn't need rejetting. I rode mine from sea level to 12,000 feet in temps from 20 F to 100F and never felt the need to rejet. So I am always suspicious of a well used bike having to be rejetted, unless there has been a significant change in the air filter or exhaust system.

Is there any chance the previous owner switched from a paper air filter to a foam filter? That would have required a jetting change. You should also check that the carbs are properly seated on the intake manifolds. It is very easy to have an air leak there LEANING the mixture.

Good luck.

Magnus73 07-01-2013 11:06 AM

Thank you both!! : )

On my way home from work today it wasn't so bad anymore, blurred from time to time but not every throttle twist? almost not at all...

The bike has stock exhaust, I looked at the air filter and it looked good, standard paper stuff, filter thingie... ; )

But i saw this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132080 about the cannisterectomy wich Orangecicle mentioned something about, I found the hose I think, and it was unplugged! I plugged it and took a shirt test ride and it felt like it went allot better!?...

But my idle rpm is about 900-1000 rpm, little low isn't it? shouldn't it be around 1400rpm? it stalls very easy at red lights and crawling speed!

But maybe I should take the carburators apart and look everything over, but I want to ride! ; )

Orangecicle 07-01-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus73 (Post 21765237)
Thank you both!! : )

On my way home from work today it wasn't so bad anymore, blurred from time to time but not every throttle twist? almost not at all...

The bike has stock exhaust, I looked at the air filter and it looked good, standard paper stuff, filter thingie... ; )

But i saw this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132080 about the cannisterectomy wich Orangecicle mentioned something about, I found the hose I think, and it was unplugged! I plugged it and took a shirt test ride and it felt like it went allot better!?...

But my idle rpm is about 900-1000 rpm, little low isn't it? shouldn't it be around 1400rpm? it stalls very easy at red lights and crawling speed!

But maybe I should take the carburators apart and look everything over, but I want to ride! ; )

Increase your idle with the adjuster hanging down the shifter side of the bike. The adjuster has a black knob on the end.

Magnus73 07-01-2013 12:31 PM

Thank you will look for it and try : )

Magnus73 07-01-2013 12:40 PM

Just went outside and started up the bike, was a couple of hours since it last started but now it started easy without choke, I found the knob and adjusted the idle (thank you Orangecicle!) and it seems much more responsive now!

Didn't know about the idle knob! : )

Magnus73 07-01-2013 11:09 PM

On the way to work this morning it started easy without choke, didnt try any high rpm but will try after work.

It seem like that unplugged hose that I plugged did something good tho! : )


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