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binman41 07-08-2013 07:31 AM

Engine problems!
 
Hi All,

First thread on here so please be gentle :) ..... I have searched for related threads but cant find much.

I have owned my GS 800 for about 6 mnths or so now, and up till now she hasn't missed a beat. Its an 08' model with about 15k miles on the clock and full BMW service history (bought from a private sale and not a dealer).

So last Thursday I was riding along reasonably 'spiritfully' and the bike started to loose power, instantly dropped down a gear or two and it was still loosing power....before I could pull over it had already decided to stop, clutch in engine off.

I got home (recovered by van) and started it up again after it had a chance to cool, engine started and ran but very lumpy especially when reving it a tiny bit, metalic sound so switched it straight off. Started it again the following morning and again it sounded rough.

Initial thoughts were a cracked spark plug or a bent valve, so the plan was to remove sparks and rocker cover and check cams/valves and timing. Rocker cover off, put bike in gear (with spark plugs out) and went to turn over by hand....and the engine is seized solid... tried turning rear wheel in every gear, and by using a socket on the chain sprocket and nothing.

This leads me to think theres a problem with the big end or the gearbox.

Drained the oil, small metalic particles, very fine flakes, but nothing too sinister, and a good 3/4 litres of oil.

Removed the clutch cover nothing sinister looking, removed clutch plates, all the plates look ok. With plates removed and bike in gear the rear tyre spins the inner clutch basket freely, put the plates back in (with the outer most clutch plate joining the inner basket to outer basket and again its solid.

From here I am a bit stuck on what to do, what do people recommend? Discussed with BMW dealer, they are recommending I look around for a new (used) engine, but unfortunately due to funds I cant afford the 2k they are going for!

My next plan was to remove the engine completely and seperate the block to see if i can find out what it is. I imagine whatever the problem the engine has to come out regardless, wether thats to fit a new engine or repair the broken one....I know how much of a pain the engine is going to be to get out with a hoist etc.

Does anyone have any other ideas? Is it worth me dropping the sump off? Removing alternator cover? Removing clutch basket assembly?

Your help is greatly appreciated as at the moment im going crazy in limbo!

Oh i forgot to mention, the whole reason I bought the bike is that im off to do a 5 week tour over the european alps in September with a friend, so I need to get the bike back running again!

Cheers

Chris

binman41 07-08-2013 07:36 AM

Just to add, My thoughts now are that perhaps its a collapsed bearing or main bearing gone, or it could be related to the balancing rod?

Are there any checks or visual checks I can do to look at this? Or should i just drop the engine, split the block and have a good look then?

scarygary 07-08-2013 08:10 AM

Jeez.. that sounds bad. If it happened to me, the last thing I would do would be to tear into the motor. I would check all the external systems like fuel pump, spark/battery and air filter and see if there was any issues. Get the bike hooked up to a computer and see if any fault codes were triggered. I agree that a mechanical noise could make one jump to a catastrophic conclusion.

ebrabaek 07-08-2013 12:55 PM

It is a bit hard to diagnose a major issue like this without being there, but metallic sounds, along with lumping.....is never a good thing. If this were my bike, I would start by gathering access to the top end. Out with the spark plugs, and do a compression check. That will rule out any bend valves. If that is good, then move on to other likely suspects, like perhaps the fuel system. I would go that way, before opening it up. Perhaps off with the cover, and check the cams...... etc.

(PS) ignore the above post, as I missed the seized part.

TK-421 07-08-2013 02:06 PM

From nOOb to nOOb That's rotten luck but I agree with your diagnosis so far. (And did that guy^ just suggest you run a compression check on a siezed engine? seriously!?).

As a mechanic my experience is that you've got to keep disassembling until you find the failure, a stuck motor is never good but I agree with the prior poster, start with the top-end and work down. Once you've located the issue you can price parts/machine-work vs. replacement engine. Let us know what you find, nervous F800 owners are standing by...

Icy Roads 07-08-2013 02:42 PM

Just what you don't need
 
All I can say is ouch! If a friendly dealer was to do a quick computer analysis it might tell you some valuable facts of major failures then again it might not.... From what you described it sounds pricey to me even if you do most of the work yourself. I have nightmares about those very sounds. Good luck, let us know what you find.

Reaver 07-08-2013 03:43 PM

The one and only time that exact scenario happened to me on a different bike was when it ran out of oil. How much did you drain? 3/4 litre or 3-4 L? It's supposed to hold 2.9 L including the filter. So no red flashing oil can on the display while that happened eh?

On my race truck a piece of metal jammed the oil pressure relief valve open and by the time I pulled over....it was too late.

Sounds like you blew a cylinder to me. If there's metal in your oil then it's all bad. Sorry.

What country you in??

ebrabaek 07-08-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK-421 (Post 21818487)
From nOOb to nOOb That's rotten luck but I agree with your diagnosis so far. (And did that guy^ just suggest you run a compression check on a siezed engine? seriously!?).

As a mechanic my experience is that you've got to keep disassembling until you find the failure, a stuck motor is never good but I agree with the prior poster, start with the top-end and work down. Once you've located the issue you can price parts/machine-work vs. replacement engine. Let us know what you find, nervous F800 owners are standing by...

Yes that guy did just that...... As that guy missed the seized part. Nice first post. Welcome.

Full Power 07-08-2013 04:55 PM

If you were running it hard, with only 3/4 liter of oil, you will likely have some serious lower end damage.

ilvecchio 07-08-2013 06:17 PM

You didn't mention the last time the oil level was checked or how many miles have been put on the bike since the last oil level check. I have had a number of BMWs and some use oil and some don't. My R100GSPD uses little or no oil at 120,000 miles. But other, newer BMWs have used almost a quart in 1,000 miles.

If the bike only had 3/4 liter of oil, it seems like the bike was definitely using oil and, as previous posters have noted, you could have serious damage.

Good luck with the tear down.

murpies 07-08-2013 07:15 PM

It sound familiar!! I had tat same problem while moving up a gear then it start surging and the engine stalled with clutch engage when at a stop. Start up the engine and it started to surge and can hear metallic knocking noise and stalled again. Send to BMW workshop they can't find any fault code or reinstate the same problem i encounter again. Even I have the video footage to show them. Wat they did is change a new TPS sensor and it working without fail till today. Hope it helps . As for engine seize, I really have no idea.

binman41 07-08-2013 11:35 PM

Hi all thanks for your responses. The engine had 3 to 4 litres of engine in. Havnt stripped the engine out of the bike yet as waiting for haynes manual.

Reaver, yes, i forgot to mention in first post that as bike came to a halt the red oil light was flashing. When i turned it back on later after the warning light had dissapeared. Wondering if it could be related to the cam chain tensioner failing? Or perhaps over pressure from the oil. Either way its obviously caused further damage.

Im from the UK.

Only had 2000/3000 miles put on it since last oil change.

Will keep you all updated as i get into tearing it apart. Engines are like rocking horse poo over here...have phoned multiple breakers and theyve never even had a 800GS in let alone have engines!

dpm 07-09-2013 08:25 AM

there's one on Ebay at the mo- complete but with a damaged outer cover IIRC.

binman41 07-09-2013 03:07 PM

Hi DPM,
I cant see the engine youve seen? Is it UK ebay or US ebay? U couldnt post a link for me could you? Even of its in the states i may be able to get it shipped across the pond! Thankyou

Kiwi Tinkerer 07-09-2013 03:51 PM

Manual + how much oil exactly?
 
Or you could go with the BMW service manual. (K72) Buy one from your local dealer. They have what you need.

I have seen some advertised on ebay and I imagine you could probably find one on line somewhere. (Dodgey!)

Good luck.

Regarding your issue. From your description, and the fact the oil light came on, it sound like you ran low on oil. However, you say that you drained some oil out of it. In which case it's a sudden unexplained loss of oil pressure.

So how much exactly? Was it 3 litres? Or 4 Litres? or less? Please let us know how much was in there.

Regardless. Running the motor without oil pressure will most likely mean engine bearings and probably pistons. If you can get an engine cheap, then good luck. But it is repairable. Just get it apart and get busy.

We are all keen to know the cause and the damage it has done.
Good luck.


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