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-   -   downshift/braking methods (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925259)

cellige 10-06-2013 06:54 PM

downshift/braking methods
 
Someone said it would be a good idea to post in this subforum, so here we go ! Question about downshifting !

Seems to be that the technique used out on the track (mainly without a slipper clutch) is to downshift while braking, releasing the clutch for each gear, finishing your braking/downshifting before you lean the bike, lean the bike and then immediately after done leaning, roll on the throttle.

I would like to know why there is an advantage doing that method instead of: braking, downshifting through each gear with the clutch held in, leaning the bike and immediately after leaning getting the clutch in the friction zone/rolling on the throttle/getting clutch all the way out.

So whats the deal?

kyns 10-06-2013 07:35 PM

It is WAY smoother to ride with the track style, releasing the clutch every gear. I allways ride like that, at the track or traffic or off road. Riding like that you are allways on the right gear and right rpm for the curve/situation. And you are then using the engine as rear brake. It is WAY smoother.:deal And smooth is fast.

At the track you actually trail the brakes (front brake) all the way to the apex and down shift at the same time. Blipping the throttle while downshifts for smooth shifts. If you use the track method, you need to blip while down shifts, or you get a lot of CLUNCKS and eventually break your tranny.

With the track method you allways have the engine connected to the ground, either engine braking or accelerating. RPM and gear matched to the situation.

joexr 10-06-2013 07:38 PM

BLIP:deal

KX50002 10-06-2013 07:39 PM

Clutch?? I only use that when I'm stopped.

henshao 10-06-2013 08:42 PM

I prefer to be in the right gear before I ever reach the corner, but I will skip every gear on the way down to it.

atomicalex 10-06-2013 11:07 PM

Be warned, once you start trail braking, you will never give it up. It is one of the most useful advanced techniques there is. You can bail out of some deeeeeeeeep sheet on tractive surfaces if you are confident and can apply it properly. YMMV on loose surfaces!

ADZ 10-07-2013 12:11 AM

Cause you don't want to freewheel through any corner.
You want throttle cracked on as soon as u finish braking to balance the bike and hold a consistent line.
Who tought u option 2??? It's dangerous.

Bounder 10-07-2013 01:57 AM

Option 2 runs the risk of the bike locking up as you bang down through the gears and then let the clutch out, also when the engine has been spun up by the lower gears its very likely to be in the meat of the torque curve and as you roll the throttle on you could spin the rear which usually means bad juju.
Better to go into the corner under control and in the correct gear and on partial throttle.

cellige 10-07-2013 07:26 AM

To clarify the only differences I was describing between option 1 and 2 were:
letting the clutch out for each gear in option 1, and not in option 2.
cracking the throttle on just after lean completion in option 1, versus letting clutch out just after lean completion in option 2. Both being at the same spot on the track.

mdubya 10-07-2013 07:27 AM

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pretbek 10-07-2013 08:30 AM

You don't have to concentrate on proper gas/clutch control when you are already in the right gear with the clutch fully released.
That way you can focus on other things like apex, exit speed, obstacles and road surface.

If you get the gas/clutch thing wrong while leaned over, you can more easily lose traction and lowside or highside. Repercussions are less bad when still approaching the turn riding upright.

cellige 10-07-2013 08:37 AM

pretbek, perhaps its just my lack of skill but it seems on my bike that even if I crack the throttle on the smallest amount I can, its still not smooth, whereas I can get the power on (in the same amount of time) by engaging the clutch/throttle very smoothly. Is that not common?

GoUglyEarly 10-07-2013 09:15 AM

Learning to implement trailbraking increased my cornering confidence immensely.

Letting the clutch out for each gear makes it easier to match revs on the downshift for me, requires less blip, decreases the chance I will upset the suspension, and provides engine braking.

If you don't need all that and can match revs just fine on multiple gear downshifts I don't see why you shouldn't continue doing what you are comfortable with.

corndog67 10-07-2013 09:30 AM

Let's confuse it a little more. I ride my street bikes, like a dirt bike. Lots of clutch action, especially at slow speed. When I'm down shifting, I don't bang the clutch lever back out, maybe 85%-95% all the way out, and since I don't have a slipper clutch, and I'm not springing $1000 for one, I don't have any issues with chirping or locking the rear wheel when I'm starting to get aggressive when I'm downshifting. Make sense?

kyns 10-07-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellige (Post 22497585)
To clarify the only differences I was describing between option 1 and 2 were:
letting the clutch out for each gear in option 1, and not in option 2.
cracking the throttle on just after lean completion in option 1, versus letting clutch out just after lean completion in option 2. Both being at the same spot on the track.

To be smooth, you need to go down to the correct gear and letting the clutch out BEFORE the apex. Then "cruise" trough the curve on steady gas and smoothly ad throttle once trough the apex.

Do not go trough the corner with your clutch pulled in, and letting it out only after apex.


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