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-   -   F8GS Fuel injection battle stations.... the line is drawn..... (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933821)

ebrabaek 11-11-2013 11:57 AM

F8GS Fuel injection battle stations.... the line is drawn.....
 
As in biblical terms, the line is drawn between David and Goliath. In the left corner are the giant entrepreneurial boxes of wizardry from Dynojet, and in the right corner is the digital domain dominator from Nightrider. :huh:huh you say..... well perhaps, but as we all strive for something better around the corner, I am no different....:D
As many of you have followed my thread regarding the PC-5/AT experience.......

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861778

I never felt that it was a final solution, as too much infighting, and inefficiency resulted from incompatible boxes. I know...I know, perhaps that is debatable, but as to not focus on material already posted, have a look at my conclusion of the DJ thread. I have conversed with Roger ( developer of the AF-XIED) and unlike the folks at DJ, he has been super helpful, supplying plenty of information, regarding his, and Night riders little box. I decided to try this, and compare the results. It is a true case of small vs. big, but as with many things, that is never really an indicator of reality. I have a pretty good insight of the F8GS operation, and hopefully within the next few weeks, a GS-911 will help further.

The goal here is to put the AF-XIED up against the PC-5/AT combo, and in all practicality single out the better running bike. Mind you, the DJ combo runs hard, and will be hard to beat..... I think....:D:evil. But it does so at the expense of fuel. The BMSK, and DJ combo was never friends, but sort of strolled along the curb on each side of the street like two bullies. The goal here is to remove the DJ combo, and install the AF-XIED, and try it out. If it runs as good as the DJ combo, It will stay, if not I will remove the XIED, and re install the DJ combo. Sound a bit harsh..... Perhaps, but as you have once ridden a proper fueled 8GS..... you will not look back. It would be a wonderful world, if Rogers box can accomplish this. I am hopeful, and the next few weeks will tell.

Mind you I have Arrow headers, and a open pipe with a 2 1/4 inch internal diameter core. Can you say free flow.....:lol3:lol3. In the end, I would like to drive back up to Denver, to visit the SSW dyno shop, and pull with the AF-XIED. That is off course if it runs up to par. It is a bit of work, to uninstall the DJ stuff, but wok will now begin........

Lady's and gentlemen........ Start your engines.....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps799e543f.jpg


Stay tuned.......:lol3:lol3:clap:freaky:freaky

Shooby 11-11-2013 12:03 PM

K, tuned in.
I thought you mentioned going back to stock pipes in your skid plate fix/thread. ?

ebrabaek 11-11-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooby (Post 22756038)
K, tuned in.
I thought you mentioned going back to stock pipes in your skid plate fix/thread. ?

I will ditch the Arrow headers, as I find someone that can cut out the CAT, and re-weld the stock headers back. CAT is too restrictive, so it wont happen until I find someone I trust with that project.....:D:D

AK650 11-11-2013 03:28 PM

Looking forward to the results of your test!

Jeff

ebrabaek 11-11-2013 03:56 PM

Removal of the DJ stuff is quite a bit more encompassing than the AF-XIED. Airbox off.... etc..... But the XIED can be installed in a matter of 10 minutes..... I kid you not. Very easy basically it plugs in between the stock O2 sensor, and the BMSK, with the only other wire to be connected is the Ground wire.
First removal was the DJ wide band sensor....... I am certain it was running richer than it should, as the DJ wide band O2 bung indicates.....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...pscb47f9f3.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3b400efb.jpg


Here it is next to the stock narrow band O2 bung that was just removed from the stock headers......
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps4314aa0c.jpg


The two systems next to each other......
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb71dbab0.jpg


Next was the splicing of the XIED wire...... Normally you would find these two connected. This is what you'd see.....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psc93bb355.jpg


Then I ran the cable to the XIED unit ( which is to be installed under the seat) right next to the shock, to be zipped to the main wiring harness....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa7005d16.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psd6fb387d.jpg


Then the XIED cable was connected.....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps8d664e59.jpg


Put in place....
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psf794b108.jpg


Note the happy co-location of the two chip's...... They are even sharing the ground connection......:lol3:lol3
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps931a1536.jpg


Until tomorrow......:freaky:freaky

jscottyk 11-11-2013 04:56 PM

Awesome! I am really looking forward to your test.

Roger is a gentleman and a scholar. I predict you'll have a great time working on this project with him.

Do you have a GS-911 to log data?

ebrabaek 11-11-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscottyk (Post 22758032)
Awesome! I am really looking forward to your test.

Roger is a gentleman and a scholar. I predict you'll have a great time working on this project with him.

Do you have a GS-911 to log data?

Thanks....
I have had nothing but the most help from Roger supporting this via e-mail. Will be a little while before I place an order for the GS-911, which is ok, as beta's like yourself have done most of the data logging. No doubt I need to get my hands on one, but as beta is over, and rogers input, I feel that the bike will tell the rest. If this system can rock it like the DJ stuff did, but in tune with the BMSK, and perhaps without the big fuel penalty, I'm game. First start is tomorrow.......:freaky:freaky

MTrider16 11-11-2013 06:48 PM

:lurk:lurk:lurk:lurk

aclundwall 11-11-2013 08:17 PM

This will be interesting! I have a brand new DJ PCV and Autotune sitting on my workbench. I am waiting on my QD headers for the install. I would be delighted with the results Erling got with the PCV.

If I remember correctly from the other thread, the gain in HP was a little over 5hp max, and HP and torque were up throughout the rev range. Those numbers are pretty tough to beat on an engine putting out less than 80hp to start, with nothing but bolt on parts!

My prediction is that he'll wind up with a nice running bike, with less power than with the PCV, but will recover some of the lost fuel economy, ending up closer to the original values. Further, I fully expect the computed value for mileage will regain the same level of accuracy it had originally.

However it goes, I'm eager to see what happens! I have no problem tossing the PC + AT in favor of another solution, if it turns out to be better!

roger 04 rt 11-11-2013 08:33 PM

The one thing I'm waiting to see is if the Open exhaust allows so much air reversion that the mixture appears too lean to the O2 sensor and it commands the BMSK to add TOO MUCH fuel. If that is the case as it was on mike f.'s R1200R with headers and exhaust, we might solve the problem by selecting a leaner setting on the AF-XIED. That's what we did on mike's bike.
RB

ebrabaek 11-12-2013 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclundwall (Post 22759533)
This will be interesting! I have a brand new DJ PCV and Autotune sitting on my workbench. I am waiting on my QD headers for the install. I would be delighted with the results Erling got with the PCV.

If I remember correctly from the other thread, the gain in HP was a little over 5hp max, and HP and torque were up throughout the rev range. Those numbers are pretty tough to beat on an engine putting out less than 80hp to start, with nothing but bolt on parts!

My prediction is that he'll wind up with a nice running bike, with less power than with the PCV, but will recover some of the lost fuel economy, ending up closer to the original values. Further, I fully expect the computed value for mileage will regain the same level of accuracy it had originally.

However it goes, I'm eager to see what happens! I have no problem tossing the PC + AT in favor of another solution, if it turns out to be better!

That is one prediction. A very plausible one. But it entails a bit more, as we are still not sure what exactly happens to the fuel pulse, or should we just say quality of the injector pulse, as the AT " drifts" with the BMSK. It is in that realm, that I think there is more to be had. I cannot help feeling that the DJ/AT just whacks the injector, sorta like hanging a picture with a 10 pound sledgehammer....... Can you hang the picture..... yes. Are there better ways to hang the picture........ yes. We shall see how it goes today, as I push start.......:D:D

ebrabaek 11-12-2013 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger 04 rt (Post 22759622)
The one thing I'm waiting to see is if the Open exhaust allows so much air reversion that the mixture appears too lean to the O2 sensor and it commands the BMSK to add TOO MUCH fuel. If that is the case as it was on mike f.'s R1200R with headers and exhaust, we might solve the problem by selecting a leaner setting on the AF-XIED. That's what we did on mike's bike.
RB

I personally think that the 8GS does not have much air reversion, but we shall see......:D:D

roger 04 rt 11-12-2013 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrabaek (Post 22761093)
I personally think that the 8GS does not have much air reversion, but we shall see......:D:D

Not in stock condition with silencer and catalytic converter but with your "free flowing" open exhaust, at low-mid RPMs, it seems highly likely to me.
RB

ebrabaek 11-12-2013 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger 04 rt (Post 22761147)
Not in stock condition with silencer and catalytic converter but with your "free flowing" open exhaust, at low-mid RPMs, it seems highly likely to me.
RB

We shall see Roger. If there is, then there would have been with the PC-5/AT combo as well, and things should be equal. How is the best way to doc. this, in your opinion....??? GS-911...????

roger 04 rt 11-12-2013 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrabaek (Post 22761162)
We shall see Roger. If there is, then there would have been with the PC-5/AT combo as well, and things should be equal. How is the best way to doc. this, in your oppingion....??? GS-911...????

You're right, it would happen in both cases. It would be hard to measure. We could try to examine it by watching the Lambda Control Factors.

The BMSK and AF-XIED are better positioned to resist the effects of air reversion due to the BMSK's more robust algorithms for LCFs and Long Term Trim.

However, you should eventually try settings 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. If your bike runs better in the low mid-RPM range with a lower setting, that would be a marker for air reversion.
RB


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