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-   -   New tire need scuffing myth (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=942171)

TheBlurr 12-20-2013 03:12 PM

New tire need scuffing myth
 
I see it is still being perpetuated, and it simply is not true


First off, Knoche quickly dispatched the old wives' tale that the surface of the tire needs to be scuffed or roughed up to offer grip. "Maybe it's coming from the old days when people were spraying mold release on the tread when the molds were maybe not that precise," Knoche speculates, "and the machinery was not that precise. But nowadays molds are typically coated with Teflon or other surface treatments. The release you put in there (in the sidewall area only, not the tread) is for like baking a cake, you know, so that it fills all the little corners and today that is done more mechanically than by spraying. The sidewall is important because you have all the engraving in the sidewall [with tire size, inflation pressure and certifications] and that you want to look nicely on your tire, so that's why we still spray the mold release there."
The next myth we see perpetuated nearly every time we watch the warm-up lap to a race. Riders begin weaving back and forth in apparent attempt to scuff the tread surface (which we've already discounted) and generate heat. The reality is that, according to every tire engineer that I've asked, there are far more effective ways of generating heat in a tire that are also much safer. Rather than weaving back and forth-which does little in the way of generating heat but does put you at risk asking for cornering grip from tires before they're up to temperature-you're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well (you often see Formula 1 cars weaving violently back and forth because automobilehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png tires operate on a horizontal plane, so they have and use significant sidewall flex to generate heat).

foxtrapper 12-20-2013 03:22 PM

The mold release on the surface of them can make things interesting for the first few miles.

hardwaregrrl 12-20-2013 03:28 PM

not a face plant. Should be moved to here. Ask the mods nicely....and say thank you.

dmcd 12-20-2013 04:59 PM

I'm afraid I trust my friend/tyre supplying/mechanic more than I trust you, so, I'll just play it safe for a couple miles if you don't mind.

TheBlurr 12-20-2013 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcd (Post 23034751)
I'm afraid I trust my friend/tyre supplying/mechanic more than I trust you, so, I'll just play it safe for a couple miles if you don't mind.

You trust your friend more than Lance Holst former professional AMA racer, Nicky Hayden/Jason Pridmore manager who also helped set up Kevin Swantz Riding school?

As well as the Service Rep for Pirrelli?

You really want a treat go to a race track sometime, you get to see lots of brand new shiny tires, some with a sticker on.

FYI I hvae a very close friend whom I consider an Amazing Mechanic who perpetuated this myth just like your friend.

dmcd 12-20-2013 05:06 PM

Yes

http://youtu.be/Q9zNUPDmnz4

dmcd 12-20-2013 05:18 PM

However, to be fair, I might push it a bit if I had the skill of a professional racer, a works bike, racing compounds and USA weather. Tyre warmers and a nice race track would also boost my confidence a bit.

damurph 12-20-2013 05:29 PM

Having landed on my ass on a new set of rubber.... I believe it.
I also believe in gravity... not just a good idea...it's the law.

dmcd 12-20-2013 05:35 PM

Christ you've got me started now...... More to it than the release agent?

Running tyres in


It is important to understand that running tyres in doesn’t just mean scrubbing-in the tyres surface. Scrubbing a tyres surface is only one of the reasons for running tyres in:
  • A tyre needs to be seated on the wheel.This is not fully achieved when fitting the tyre and it needs to be ridden on with caution to complete the process.
  • In order to achieve optimum performance, the various components of the tyre (belts,tread,strip etc) need to correctly bed in to one another. If not correctly run in, a tyre may not give the best possible performance.
  • When new, a tyre has a very smooth surface and in order to obtain optimum grip, the smooth surface needs to be scrubbed in. At first the bike should be ridden as upright as possible.Gradually, the angle of lean can be increased, always ensuring that a portion of the scrubbed-in tread remains in contact with the road until full lean angles are achieved. During this time the bike should be ridden cautiously.Hard or sudden acceleration and braking should be avoided because optimum traction levels will not be achieved until the running-in process is completed.
Not all manufacturers use releasing agents during the manufacturing process, but for those that do ,the scrubbing-in process will need to take into account the fluid residue as well as the smooth surface.These agents can also contain anti ageing preservatives and this is why the manufacturers do not remove them before shipping to their customers.

fallingoff 12-20-2013 05:36 PM

sorry but every tyre I buy is shiny
shiny = slippery
plus it feels slippery
so I spend a couple
of minutes scuffing
them, just like
gremlin bells
makes me feel
safer.

the bells was a joke
before ...

merry tyre scrubbing

thks boss/wife
for correct spell
of tyre

soggysandwich 12-20-2013 05:37 PM

To..The Blurr......
you ride an old klr650....what the fuck do you know about how new sportbike tires feel after they are just mounted and balanced?
NOTHING !

the first few miles always feel like riding on marbles or ice,,especially if you ride on hilly/curving roads....not so much in pool table flat Florida.....

I will continue to listen to my 60 yrs of riding experience [ have my own tire changing machine}...and not some douch bag trying to impress others with shit he read on the internet.

of course at the acceleration and speed that a KLR 650 generates ,,,,, you will have no problem with them dirt tires:rofl

Merry Christmas:lol3

Louis Wambsganss 12-20-2013 05:38 PM

I have a set of Metzeler Z8 Interacts (mfgd in 2012). When new they had a very noticeable heavy waxy/greasy film on the tread area. I don;t know if it's mold release agent, or what, but it was slippery on the road. I could not cut through it with Simple Green or Fast Orange. It just smeared. This makes me think it was a wax vs a grease. It clogged up sandpaper. The only way I found to remove it was to wear it off on the road, just being very careful as I leaned further over the first few times.

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/...filmModel1.jpg

This was not just scuffing of the tire's rubber surface. It was actually removing a heavy wax film that came on the tire from the factory.

ragtoplvr 12-20-2013 05:42 PM

I know that a new Shinko Raven is slick. You should see how the water beads up on them. I almost took off my first set because they were so slick. I am talking hanging the rear out at a fairly slow speed.

I buff with angle grinder, then ride gravel and then work up to full lean.

You do what you want, some new tires are slick.

Rod

fallingoff 12-20-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr (Post 23035035)
I know that a new Shinko Raven is slick. You should see how the water beads up on them. I almost took off my first set because they were so slick. I am talking hanging the rear out at a fairly slow speed.

I buff with angle grinder, then ride gravel and then work up to full lean.

You do what you want, some new tires are slick.

Rod

yeh I use a axe and plasma cutter on mine.
lol

i'll try the grinder next time.

merry xmas

Foot dragger 12-20-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr (Post 23035035)
I know that a new Shinko Raven is slick. You should see how the water beads up on them. I almost took off my first set because they were so slick. I am talking hanging the rear out at a fairly slow speed.

I buff with angle grinder, then ride gravel and then work up to full lean.

You do what you want, some new tires are slick.

Rod

I drag my new tires behind my truck on the way home from the shop,then use gradually rougher sandpaper on them,I make the kids sand em for hours. Gotta watch the little shits dont make holes in em.
It cuts down on the life of the tire but I sleep better.


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