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-   -   A question for LEOs, a little long. (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994210)

390beretta 07-15-2014 02:28 PM

A question for LEOs, a little long.
 
Situation: I have a good friend (Iron Butt Rider) who gets pulled over for speeding with regularity, yet seldom gets a ticket. He's 73 yo, (His IB number is in the low 70s if that tells you anything) Last time he was stopped, no ticket, he was clocked at 88 in a 55. The last time he actually got a ticket, he was stopped 3 times in the same state (AZ) the last cop to stop him checked and saw that he'd been stopped two other times that day....and wrote him the ticket.

I've asked him how the hell he talks his way out of tickets and he becomes rather vague. But what I know about him is:

1. He's always ATGATT.
2. He rides one of two or three well maintained BMWs.
3. He has gray hair and never cops an attitude.
4. He has his DL, insurance papers, concealed carry permit etc. all handy and ready to be handed over to the officer. Seldom carries a gun, but says that the CC permit puts the officer at ease.
5. He's never "hot dogging" nor riding unsafely.......just speeding.

My question for LEOs is: What's your take on this situation and what would incline/disincline you to ticket this guy?

Rgconner 07-15-2014 02:40 PM

Does he include a copy of his bucket list to, just for some extra sympathy?

390beretta 07-15-2014 02:52 PM

Well, one other thing I can tell you about him is that he's been known, when he knows he's been busted, to pull over and wait for the cop to pull in behind him. He usually says something like "I knew you had me, just wanted to save you the trouble of chasin' me down". But the "bucket list"....not that I'm aware of.:D

Ernest T 07-15-2014 03:09 PM

Its been my experience that most cops have decided if you are, or are not going to get a ticket before they pull you over. I think most of them aren't going to give you one if you weren't doing anything really stupid and you are wearing all the gear, have insurance, a current registration, up to date inspection sticker and valid drivers license and don't cop an attitude. Any of those amiss or get belligerent and uncooperative, then all bets are off.

390beretta 07-15-2014 03:18 PM

Ernest, no offense, but what do you base your comments on? Just askin', again no offense intended.

I'd still really like to hear from LEOs.

Bucho 07-15-2014 04:12 PM

Being old really helps. Full gear and looking like a responsible rider matters to me but probably not some cops.

Its kind of a crap shoot. I dont write many tickets but some officers pretty much write a ticket every time they make a stop.

Thanantos 07-15-2014 04:27 PM

LEO here. O boy here we go.....

First of all "cops" is a very general term referring to a group of people that come from every walk of life, have every variable life experience including every socioeconomic, educational, racial, gender, religious and otherwise divide you could imagine.

Add to all of that cops (speaking here merely of the ones in marked police cars) have different roles. There's traffic cops, beat cops, community policing cops, rural cops, city cops, highway cops, commercial vehicle cops....Hell, FL even has special cops assigned just to "aggressive drivers". Every one of them has a different expectation put upon them and then add to that supervisory, community and political pressures.

The point of all of that is to say there is no silver bullet. Every encounter with a police officer is a unique one for both of you.

That being said here is my (and most police officers I know) philosophy on every traffic stop, "What is the minimum level of enforcement necessary to affect this drivers behavior?"

I hope you would understand at this point that LEO's are people not robots. We do feel compassion although that compassion is tempered by the multitudes who have lied to us before.

So given the scenario below and add to it that he's over 70 I can see an LEO having compassion for an old guy and assuming that he wasn't intentionally breaking the law because he is otherwise clearly being a very safe rider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 390beretta (Post 24622981)
1. He's always ATGATT.
2. He rides one of two or three well maintained BMWs.
3. He has gray hair and never cops an attitude.
4. He has his DL, insurance papers, concealed carry permit etc. all handy and ready to be handed over to the officer. Seldom carries a gun, but says that the CC permit puts the officer at ease.
5. He's never "hot dogging" nor riding unsafely.......just speeding.


FongMan 07-15-2014 04:31 PM

Law Enforcement is the 7th most popular job for Psychopath's, just say'n .

But the old fart probley does the Obie Wan Kanobie, " These aren't the
droids you're looking for" trick. You don't get old with out learning a trick or 2.

aldend123 07-15-2014 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanantos (Post 24623919)
That being said here is my (and most police officers I know) philosophy on every traffic stop, "What is the minimum level of enforcement necessary to affect this drivers behavior?"

What about situations like he one where he was stopped 3 times in a state? Does this start to appear willful, rather than a slip?

I think a section of OP's discussion might include whether the attitute that "speed kills" really is a primary issue in LEO's eyes. Does simple speeding on low-traffic high visibility roads trigger your desire to "affect this drivers behavior"? From a younger person's POV, it seems like speed became a hot issue in the baby boomer's generation, while now we're seeing a shift towards distracted driving as the latest skyfall.

Excellent reply btw

Thanantos 07-15-2014 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FongMan (Post 24623964)
Law Enforcement is the 7th most popular job for Psychopath's, just say'n

And you can provide proof of this?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Thanantos 07-15-2014 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldend123 (Post 24624053)
What about situations like he one where he was stopped 3 times in a state? Does this start to appear willful, rather than a slip?

I think a section of OP's discussion might include whether the attitute that "speed kills" really is a primary issue in LEO's eyes. Does simple speeding on low-traffic high visibility roads trigger your desire to "affect this drivers behavior"? From a younger person's POV, it seems like speed became a hot issue in the baby boomer's generation, while now we're seeing a shift towards distracted driving as the latest skyfall.

Excellent reply btw

Sure, it does become willful at that point and I'm surprised the second officer didn't write him a ticket. Riders/drivers like him should be aware that very recently police officers have this sort of knowledge readily available (we are always the last to get new technology).

As far as the speed vs distracted driving goes you can file that under community pressures. LEO's are always in the position of trying to affect safety via science (studies that show enforcement effectiveness) and community concerns (#1 is almost always speed).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

FongMan 07-15-2014 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanantos (Post 24624105)
And you can provide proof of this?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

It was in a psych book I read years ago,lawyer/politician was 3rd. I'm trying
to find it.

Thanantos 07-15-2014 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FongMan (Post 24624161)
It was in a psych book I read years ago,lawyer/politician was 3rd. I'm trying
to find it.

I'm not saying you're wrong or a liar, but if you're gonna put out a stat like that you should have references and a list of what the others in the top 10 are.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Mr_Gone 07-15-2014 05:09 PM

From Forbes magazine:

1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (Television/Radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergy person
9. Chef
10. Civil servant

Forbes cited a guy named Eric Barker, with a link: http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2012/11/pr...t-psychopaths/

I have no idea how scientific the study is. I have a master's in statistics, so I'd like to look at the methodology and the raw numbers. That being said, I would have though civil servant or, politicians would have been number one.

FongMan 07-15-2014 05:15 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-s...b_4740345.html

Quote:

A ranking compiled by Oxford psychologist Kevin Dutton, author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success, suggests that lawyers, CEOs, and TV/Media top the list for professions chosen by psychopaths. Conversely, care aids, nurses, and therapists are the least psychopathic professions.
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/201...305d-thumb.png

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wisdom-Psy.../dp/B007NKN9U8


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