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Old 03-15-2011, 02:30 PM  
Poolside OP
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Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottly View Post

1. If I understand this all correctly, you have plans to address the individual run conditions (tip in, tip out, etc) with individual devices?

2. Will these devices eventually interlink, or continue to work independently of each other?

3. Do these devices (some or all) produce fixed values of output, or variable?
If variable, variable by manual adjustment or adjust automatically to conditions?

4. Could you please list the distinct advantages over something like the Power Commander with auto tune?
1. Did you see the post a little ways up, Scott? That should answer the first question. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=528

2. They might eventually interlink, but only so that they may continue to function independently. Not trying to be obtuse here, really. This will come into play for the IICE Cool model, designed for the CANbus bikes.

3. It is variable by manual adjustment, to select a temperature range. Once a range is selected the device adjusts automatically to conditions.

4. Speaking about gasoline motors in general, once you get the 'fixed throttle' fueling to the Best Power mixture, and get the 'transient throttle' fueling to maintain that mixture during throttle movements, you've done everything you can do. And how you decide to get there sort of doesn't matter.

Of the two, 'transient throttle' fueling, and 'fixed throttle' fueling, getting 'transient throttle' right is more relevant and noticeable. Twice as noticeable. To compare the two, 'fixed throttle' fueling is 1/3, and 'transient throttle' fueling is 2/3.

Regarding the Power Commander (PC) specifically, I do not see any direct adjustment of 'transient throttle' fueling in their user guide. And I haven't seen any mention of it on their website. That doesn't mean the PC doesn't specifically address transient fueling, only that they don't specifically mention it on their website or user guide. Which doesn't mean they won't at some point.

There is however mention of a feature which the company refers to as an “accel pump utility" for the Power Commander products. Which claims, "increased adjustment and sensitivity ranges". I understand that to mean a manually-adjusted 'brute force fuel adder'. Which translates into 'squirt some more fuel in when the rider twists the throttle.'

I do not mean to discount their product, but an "accelerator pump utility" that is user-adjustable does not compare to the complexity, elegance, and performance of a genuine transient throttle fueling.

Transient throttle fuel control is a complicated process, and requires a very complex control algorithm. (Here is a link to a patent describing an excellent example of the process.)

If you download and read about the process, you'll see that that type of complex control is far far beyond the scope of a simple "accelerator pump utility". In addition, the shape of the eight curves for the process variables involved in the transient fuel algorithm are motor-specific. Creating those time and physics based curves is well outside the realm of a manually adjusted 'squirt-some-fuel-when-you-twist-the-throttle device'.

And just to cover the base, the curves for those process variables cannot be made using an O2 sensor. Narrow band, wideband, or the Power Commander Auto-Tune.

But, and here’s the thing, the Motronic has that fancy transient fuel algorithm built-in, and the IICE Cool accesses and manipulates that algorithm.

Scott, regarding your question 4, I don't know if I've described anything you'd consider an advantage. I'm just describing how it works.

Jim



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Poolside screwed with this post 11-06-2012 at 05:40 AM
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