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Old 03-28-2012, 10:51 AM   #78
JoelWisman OP
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Originally Posted by REVjimenez View Post

1.) To start with, Federal laws (and some state laws) require large scale resellers of the the Lithium based batteries to set up a special process for
(a) storing old batteries
(b) transporting old batteries
NOTE: neither could tell me what defines a large scale reseller nor the exact statute of law governing disposing of used batteries.
CFR49 governs transportation and disposal of lithium batteries and a few states have additional laws on the books having to do with recycling. Federally, if you are accepting or transporting more then 210lbs of lithium batteries a month for disposal, you need a special permit.

It is illegal for consumers to throw away lead/acid batteries in all 50 of the United States, which of course does not mean you can't, it simply means you will be breaking a law that has no enforcement mechanism I am aware of. It is actually legal to throw away lithium batteries in many locals.

Personally I am a fan of recycling. For lithium battery recycling, including the LiFePo4 batteries I am testing that got in bikes, Call2Recycle accepts them free from consumers. They have a zillion drop off locations including 9 within a 5 mile radius of Savanna GA.

Originally Posted by REVjimenez View Post
2.) Because of the heat involved on differing Lithium Ion batteries in differing bikes, they won't take the liability of the battery bursting into flames...I was initially confused by this, but the manager knew about the Tesla Coupe and the fire damage as well as the overheating problem (the Coupe is now water cooled batteries I believe)...
The fire in the Tesla was actually caused by a wiring fault that was on a circuit powered by a small lead/acid battery, read this LINK The coolant fires, especially in GM products is owing to the use of flammable coolant on huge traction batteries. None of the lithium starter batteries for motorcycles or cars have any coolant of any kind, so I wouldn't be concerned about that aspect.

The fires from smallish batteries like laptop batteries that have made all the news are in packs using Lithium manganese or lithium cobalt chemistry. The brand name SLI batteries I am testing (AntiGravity, Ballistic, Shorai) all use Lithium ferrous phosphate chemistry which is a hell of a lot safer. To date, I have not heard of any LiFePo4 batteries causing fires on motorcycles, just releasing a cloud of mainly steam and getting hot enough to melt some plastic.

Lead/Acid batteries can fail this way too, and as it happens, a YTX12 lead/acid battery that is in my test group released a cloud of hydrogen while I was testing it about 12 hours ago.

I am not schilling for the lithium SLI battery manufactures and so far have been anything but impressed with Shorai's product, but..... Having watched video of LiFePo4 batteries deliberately melted down by hard shorting the battery terminals, it is less exciting then what lead /acid batteries do when you short them the same way.

Originally Posted by REVjimenez View Post
3.) Most OEM car or motorcycle battery holders are too big for the Lithium Ion battery holders.
This is a plus in my book. At the least, Shorai and Ballistic ship with foam to use as a spacer so their battery can be shimmed to fit the same compartment and use the oe hold down, but I like free space to store tools or whatever. These batteries are so light you could safely hold them in place with velcro or zip ties!

Originally Posted by REVjimenez View Post
4.) And, lithium Ion batteries are typically a factor of 1.5x or greater in price compared to the standard battery as of right now...though business has been a bit off over the last 3 years, they have sold more of an inexpensive line of batteries and thus for the foreseeable future, they don't see how they would be able to sell higher quantities of a more expensive battery...
They are expensive and longevity claims to off set this are not yet proven by time. You loose some weight and gain space, but if these batteries are worth the price is going to vary depending on your priorities, desires, and how these batteries actually end up performing.

Concerns about emerging technology are fair, but I think your Batteries Plus is being a bit unfair and alarmist.
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JoelWisman screwed with this post 03-28-2012 at 11:24 AM
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