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Old 02-21-2013, 06:25 AM   #293
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,037
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Hi all, I'm not dead and no, my job is not restricting me from the internet :)

I moved up to service manager and am in the process of becoming an owner and have simply working and training so much I had no time for the internet.

I have caught up on the learning now, so hopefully am back.

I have just finished reading all the posts since I was last on this thread and have absolutely no chance of responding to all the posts in the immediate future, but perhaps soon. But.... Ill comment on a few and then its night night for me and off to work in 5 hours.

1: There hasn't been a summary so far because I was no where near done testing. I have had four careers in my life that influence my approach to testing. First was automotive technician, shop foreman, service manager and lastly field service engineer. This taught me things break but you really can't draw conclusions from a smattering of personal experiences. As an FSE I got to see figures on any part and application failure rate world wide. Sometimes a part that holds up great in Sweden fails at an alarming rate in California due to variables you hadn't considered. Next up I became an EMT Although it's rare, sometimes if your motorcycle or car won't start, you die. Disasters happen as do shootings and forest fires. (oh yeah, I fought wild land fires for 2 summers. terrible job but exciting). It's always possible that an emergency responder will follow my recommendation, (Actually the St. Louis FD did) and even if your not an emergency responder there are places your motorcycle could fail to start that could endanger your life, East St Louis for instance lmao and certainly some places people adventure ride. I feel extreme responsibility about making recommendations. Next up I was an industrial electrician. Once again I got to experience breakages on a scale that taught me to expect the unexpected and discount small scale experience with light duty use, so I TEST AND RETEST AND THEN I ABUSE. Once done with that, I test more and then start tracking large volumes of units.

I have done that now, not only have I continued testing but once reasonably satisfied with the results, brought Antigravity into my dealership and have sold them to locals on an epic scale. ZERO FAILURES of batteries sold to locals! ALL of my tester Antigravity batteries are still functioning in motorcycles even after I torture tested them and got some to vent (small hissing noises on the Antigravities NOT to be mistaken for the incredible headers of white smoke followed by black smoke and the battery cases melting I experenced during testing of Shorais).

I recommend properly sized Antigravity batteries in both every day and adventure rides. Properly sized does not mean you followed Scott's application chart. Testing his battery in every model and make of motorcycle he has listed is scarcely possible and not practical. It is Far better to take parasitic and load tests on the specific model of bike you have as well as take idiosyncrasies of that bike into account.

I recommend a large and quality LiFePO4 battery above a lead/acid battery for adventure riding, especially on fuel injected bikes. The reason is that 22 years spent mostly in the automotive and motorcycle fields has given me thousands of examples where a battery with more cranking power will start a bike or car that an average or weak battery will not, even if you crank and charge all day. Aprilia and Moto Guzzi thank goodness do not have issues with fuel injectors sticking but BMW does, they have a big dang issue with sticky injectors which will often be experienced with questionable fuel you get while adventure riding to remote corners of the globe. System cranking voltage has a proportional effect on how hard injector solenoids pull to lift a stuck injector pintle. At Gateway BMW i virtually never failed at starting a bike that came in on a tow truck due to stuck injectors by simply hooking up an oversized boost box or tossing in a more powerful battery. Thats just one example, but, a battery that will crank stronger longer will avoid a huge number of long walks and tows.

For the F800GS I recommend an Antigravity 12 cell if your daily "adventure" is to starbucks and a 16 cell if your going to ride in the winter or adventure ride away from humanity or in extreme cold. For the R1200GS/ADV the 16 cell for starbucks and 20 cell for adventure.

I also have enough experience testing Shorai as well as data on failures from 3 dealerships to recommend you NOT buy them. Sure an LFX36 will start an R80G/S or anything else in BMW's line-up because this is light duty for this battery, but for smaller sized units, empirical data I have observed, Shorai has well above average defect and failure ratios. If your using them light duty the odds are probably 9 out of 10 that you will be fine but if your going on an adventure or are going to spend the big bucks, why not spend the same dollar amount on a battery from a manufacture whos smaller highly stressed batteries DO hold up well!

earthX, the jury is still out. I am testing them and so far I LIKE them. pound for pound, CCA rating for CCA rating, list price for list price they blow the doors off of Shorai and compete neck and neck with Antigravity. They may be better or worse then Antigravity, time will tell, but you certainly will not be buying anything less then an excellent battery with Antigravity regardless of how the earthX performs. Stay tuned for another month for harder data with earthX

EarthX uses A123 cells in their smallest battery and prismatic in their larger sizes, so both the people that earlier stated that they used cylindrical and prismatic were right and both were wrong lol. It depends on the size earthX battery you are talking about.

JRWooden, my stator fix is sill holding up in both bikes I fabbed it into, though 2 is a pretty small test group.

_CY_ I will be reading your test results AND duplicating them :) because more data is better and I LIKE data

To the guy that built a BMS that disconnects his battery, for the love of all thats sacred CHANGE YOUR REGULATOR! There isn't a capacitor thats big enough to damp like a battery unless you tow it behind on 4 wheels!

If you are determined to shove a square peg into a round hole then affix a bunch of bulbs with tungsten filaments and run them right at where they barely glow....................................... L and C is not the answer because the stator puts out variable frequencies and you may build yourself a tuned circuit that make things really exciting at a specific engine RPM. On a carburated bike with little electronics a cap would sort of help but NOT on a modern bike with electronics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, 4 hours of sleep then must fix a few dozen bikes. Back soon, I hope.

I missed you all.
Joel.. welcome back!!!

in an effort to consolidate hard won data and since your methodology of subjecting test battery to 200 amp continuous loads for 30 seconds, followed by two shorter intervals was spot on. it made sense to use same testing methodology.

internal LiFePO4 cylindrical cells due to mechanical rigidity has always enjoyed higher sustained discharge rates. disadvantage of series/parallel batteries are if/when one cell goes bad, another parallel stack of cells will reverse discharge into now lower voltage stack.

more cells means greater potential for cells to become unbalanced. especially if no provisions are made for a balance charger to periodically even up cells.

this is where Earth-X really shines .. all their batteries comes with an internal BMS. their smaller batteries have tested sustained 200 amp loads (using your testing methodology) substantially better than Shorai of equal size.

IMHO to overcome problem of mfg charts listing LiFePO4 batteries way too small. there should be two charts ...

1. one chart for normal duty for folks that mostly rides in warm weather from home base.

2. second chart for severe duty for folks that take their adventure bikes to parts unknown, camping out in extreme cold conditions, etc.

mfg practice of calling an 4.6AH (actual) an 18AH PB/EQ or lead acid equivalent is down right confusing to most folks.

there's been developments that I cannot share yet, on a BMS that actually disconnect main current in event of dead short.
@Joel your input has been sorely missed ... hope you have time to stick around... congrats on your new endeavors!!

_cy_ screwed with this post 02-21-2013 at 06:34 AM
_cy_ is offline   Reply With Quote