Thread: Norra 2013
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:42 PM   #764
Scott Whitney
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: SoCal USA
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Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
Hog Wild, This is my first post in this forum so please excuse my ignorance but wouldn't this "New" form of your version of road books possibly help you out in the long run? I'f i'm not mistaken, you run a Dakar like prep deal that people hire you to help with the use of road book navagation.
Rory, first of all, I appreciate the questions and the respectful way you present them.

The roadbook stuff is not new, it's just new to most Baja racers. I don't have training events anymore. I refer people to Jimmy Lewis or Darren Skilton for that (they donít know yet that itís a money loosing activity). But I have supplied roadbooks to Jimmy and Darren for that type of training, and I do charge a bit to prepare, print, and deliver those roadbooks. It's a loosing deal for me if you look at the time versus the money, but I enjoy contributing to the success of our guys going to Dakar, so I keep doing it.

Yes NORRA going the roadbook route might help me a bit, but it could also hurt me. I'm planning an event that will compete for some of the same people who race NORRA. So I suppose my roadbook and other work for NORRA is helping send my own potential future customers to my competitor. But I don't look at it that way. I have a good job that pays well. All this race related stuff has been for fun, as a hobby. Whatever is fun, that's what I do!

Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
Personally I think it's great for all those guys that travel halfway around the world who have never used it and Dakar has pretty much used it exclusively. NORRA on the other hand is titled "The happiest race on earth" due to it's simplicity and relaxed atmosphere. I remember you talking about this over on RDC quite a while ago and SUGGESTING that they should go this route but I don't remember you mentioning anyone at NORRA contacting you about getting something going.
NORRA had roadbooks right from the start, before I even knew what NORRA was. When I entered their first race (in large part because it was rally format with roadbooks), I saw their roadbook on the website weeks before the event. It was in a format that could not be used in a bike style roadbook holder, and it was not in the somewhat standard format used around the world. So I offered to convert their roadbook into the proper format, print a bunch of copies, and bring them to registration so those with roadbook holders would have something useable. They said yes to that, and Iíve been helping them with the roadbooks ever since.

Eventually I got involved with cleaning up their GPS files (at their request) because they were having problems and they also were not providing files for those using Garmin units. That effort went well, and Iím sure it benefited everyone using a GPS. So, I even help them support those using GPS! Hell, even I used a GPS a little bit when I raced it. It was allowed, so I did it!

Last year they asked me to find a new course route in an area they had problems. I did that too, and that section will be used this year as well. That had nothing to do with roadbooks or rally specific stuff. They just needed a course fix, and I knew how to get it done quicker than them.

All that work to help you guys have a good time, and all I get is a hammering for something I only had a small hand in!

Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
Personally I think its a conflict of interest for you to be talking NORRA into going this route because you could benifit.
I think I covered this pretty well above and in earlier posts, but Iíll go over it again briefly. I think youíre way overestimating my power over them. I have spent a few HUNDRED hours helping them over the years, and Iíve MAYBE profited at best a couple hundred bucks from it. Hardly an effort to line my pockets! And if that were my motivation, what would be wrong with helping them and getting a benefit back from it? I wonít deny I would love to see more people get into rally racing and go do Dakar. Itís a SUPER cool event that everyone that can pull it off should do!

Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
This is NOT the history of off road racing, this is the history of Dakar and rally which is not what NORRA is. I'm pretty sure NORRA thinks this is a great idea because your talking them into it.
Again, they planned to use the basic rally format way before I came along. And they have been telling me from the start, they want to move further in that direction but they have to take it slow to allow everyone to learn.

I think youíre projecting your vision of the ideal race onto them (just like youíre accusing me of doing). The multi-day stage format was never the standard for off-road here. Yet NORRA wanted to do it that way right from the start, way before I came along. So it seems they are not trying to DUPLICATE the past, they are picking a path that is focused on vintage, but includes new and old ideas. How is that my fault? Remember their motto, it goes something like this: ďHonoring the Past, Forging the FutureĒ. I donít think that ďfutureĒ word means the history of off-road.

Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
Having been involved in off road racing since the late 70's watching my dad race and also been involved in one way or another with all 3 of the NORRA events, I think there is only a SMALL group of people who really like this idea.
I think most people donít really care, they just want to race. Here on ADV, the majority seem to be in favor of it. On RDC itís probably the other way. And Iíd guess many if not most of those against it would enjoy it if they approached it with a positive attitude and gave it a fair chance. I donít think the small section this year is enough of a taste to really understand it, but thatís just me.

Originally Posted by Racersonly View Post
As for 2 seaters having an advantage, it is a HUGE advantage! Co-rider can have his face buried on the road book calling out turns and hazards while the driver can keep his nose glued to the race track.
Exactly like a co-driver with a GPS! And Iím not sure youíre aware, the roadbooks do not include curves in the road. They pretty much only include intersections, major hazards, and major things like start and finish points and some gas stations. Your ďhuge advantageĒ comment makes me think maybe you have no idea what the roadbook actually has in it, and maybe have never even used one that was done in this type of cross-country rally format. You do understand with a GPS the co-driver can call out the sharpness of every curve, in dust, mountain terrain and otherwise ďblindĒ situations, yet with a roadbook you donít have that information. So a GPS probably gives a 2-seater a bigger advantage over a single-seater than a roadbook does. You may have mistakenly made MY point.
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