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Old 11-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #4136
kaptinkaos
Just some nOOb
 
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Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 05-15-55-21W5M (Home is CowTown, AB)
Oddometer: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
By dirt bike I meant my bush bike. KTM 250XC. I ride mostly bush here but come spring and fall I do 1-1.5 hour motos at Wild Rose to keep in shape. Fill gas, run till empty. My suspension will do both quite well. As stated I like it on the firm, reactive side. There's so much feedback in suspension I hate to lose that. On my XRR (agressive dual sport), I went softer and it's somewhat "go with the flow" on the single track. Floats over rough stuff, but feeling and responsiveness is definitely lacking. It's a decision on what people want. A sloppy couch is comforting to sit down over the rough stuff, but is sitting what you should, or want to be doing?

How do you raise or lower fluid level in your shock? Did you mean your forks? Shocks have purged air..

Valving is not just that. Set in stone. Viscocity changes. Moreso with thicker fluids. Hence why I said a thin oil keeps more consistant viscosity over temp ranges. I notice all the time when I jump on a bike the suspension isn't nearly as good as after 15min -1/2 hour of hamering on it. Even a trail stop cools the oil enough for me to notice it once we get rolling again. I've learnt to roll into it slowly because of this. Most accidents happen after trail stops. I firmly believe this plays a part, along with being sloppy and having lost flow.

Both shocks and forks have valving... That valving controls the rebound/compression. By changing viscosity in the oil with temperature it changes the valving resistance. When forcing oil through small shim stacks and holes, it gets hot quick.

I can see having a softer, heavier bike would be comforting, but it may not be what everybody wants.
Without jacking this thread into a suspension argument... I'll restate what you said. It's what the rider prefers. You like it firm. I don't know many people who prefer riding around with their teeth clacking together, nor do I know many pro enduro guys who ride with a stiff setup.

Ask anyone I ride with. I do not sit down when single-tracking or woods riding and not often on faster open stuff unless I'm pounding up a super steep line and need the traction. None of my bikes are sloppy couches or comforting. In fact, I tear my bikes apart and rebuild them into exactly what suits me and my riding. Plush doesn't steal responsiveness and I never told anyone to sit down and ride... I think you're taking what I'm saying about a plush setup completely the wrong way.

Yes, raise and lower the fluid level in your forks. Shock is a different story. You can play with pressure in the rear shock to an extent, but setting your preload correctly and possibly trying a progression spring will do wonders to a mostly stock setup.

To highlight a point you brought up... Yes, oil gets hot when going through small holes. Larger valving helps prevent the oil from getting too hot plus it allows the oil to not shear and break down nearly as fast. This leads to a more consistent feel and a setup that I feel is more suited to non-MX/Enduro riding. A lighter weight oil will shear much faster and break down much faster than a heavier one. ie. 5wt oil will generally take twice as much abuse than 2.5wt. It's why most people run lighter weight oil in vehicles in the winter (5w30 instead of 10w30). The valves in "plush" setups are usually about twice as large as in MX setups and in CGRT's case they are oval also. This allows for a broader range of adjustment for less aggressive situations. Sure, it's not going to work for riding the Dakar most likely, but who rides that hard in Waiporous? McLean? There are no 25ft tabletops out there. No 100mph 2 hour stretches of dunes with boulders. There are no triples and doubles and long fast whoop sections. Maybe your opinion on what enduro/dual sporting is is different from mine, but enjoying the ride is tantamount to being the fastest, most aggressive winner out there for me.

Valving is just that when you're out on a ride. It IS set in stone unless you know of a way to remove your forks, change shims, change valves all while riding? Add to that that the valve orifice won't change unless you increase it or decrease it and yeah, it's pretty stony. A rider needs a baseline before you can tweak. As you stated earlier, with your Pro-Action setup you adjusted it a LOT from where Pro-Action gave it to you. I haven't touched a darn thing on mine after I got the boingers back from Lee at CornerGrass. Put'em on, tighten them up and go. Been charmed with how amazing it is since. Of course, this was sent to him after I had a Pro-Action setup... which I could not find any setting which even came close to what I desired in a suspension. It's just my two cents, but you seem to be shooting down something that is proven to work for someone? SuperPlush uses the same valving as CGRT and so does Konflict. The Ohlins stuff also uses big bore valves to achieve plush without losing too much performance. I'm just saying there's other options out there than Pro-Action... coming from a guy who had a setup done by them. I'm just happy I have finally found a suspension tuner who listened to my needs and fully delivered.
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'08 KTM 450 EXC-R
'07 F650GS Dakar (Gone to a good home!)
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