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Old 01-14-2014, 11:15 PM   #2538
JoeMongo
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Joined: Dec 2004
Location: SF Bay Area, not exactly dirt moto heaven
Oddometer: 436
Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGibbons View Post
IMO the biggest issue with pasting F &/or L maps from an '09+ into an '07-08 is that these newer bikes run different camshafts (From the '07+ super duke if my info is correct). Rich is safer than lean, and the CPR and Power Tripp maps are richer than the '07-08 akra map, but my bike didn't run well with those values pasted into an '07 map.

I just had my '07 dyno tuned (with TuneECU/dyno/gas analyzer) and the tuner told me that the bike with the '07-08 akra map, leo vince slip on with baffles, an SW7 intake, and SAS/SAI removed, was lean at high RPM. I picked up 10hp over the Akra map once tuned and the bike runs smoother, better mileage, and runs up to redline much harder and with a less buzzy feeling.

I have a TuneECU cable and downloaded the map to my laptop last weekend to see what it looks like. PM me if interested in details!! I'm in San Francisco and happy to share experiences getting these '07-08 bike running right.


As a side note, I sure wish there was a Power-Tripp map for these early FI bikes - he seems to have spent the most time of any of the known tuners thoroughly developing F, L, and I map updates for the newer bikes, and he uses a more advanced dyno with a brake. But oh well - it was a bit of a pain and $$ but my bike runs decent now.

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the response and the information!

Your concern about the differences in the cam timing between the two vintages of 990 are why I copied the F, L, 2nd throttle, and F-L switches into the 07/08 Akra map, so that I would have the correct ignition advance maps for both high octane, as well as Baja milk jug fuel (aka: low octane).

The four maps that I copied into my test maps should be entirely, or nearly entirely, independent of cam timing. After all, I've owned bikes that run the fuel injectors as a percentage of full time duty cycle, not just during intake. They seem to work fine that way, and since the 990 injectors are also well above the valves, they probably do the same. I haven't found out if that is the case, but since it seems likely, then the fuel maps are probably pretty portable across full production run of 990 motors. I could be wrong though.

All that said, I finished a tank of gas in the bike using the Power-Trip tune based maps pasted into the 07/08 OEM Akra tune (with O2 on), and had some interesting results.

Fuel usage was rather high, at about 23 mpg. I had gotten almost 40 mpg using the OEM Akra map with O2 turned off. I suspect that this means that I can go quite a bit leaner, someplace, or even many places in the map. But where? Need a good dyno-tuner to tell me if I want to be certain.

Second, the throttle snatch at the transition from zero throttle to open throttle was still very severe with that tune. I decided by the end of my test that I could live with it, especially as it should slowly get better as the ECU learned the motor's response.

So last night I installed a new tune that I made by pasting the moto-trek maps (same four: F, L, 2nd throttle, and F-L switch) into the 07/08 OEM Akra tune.

HOLY Monkey Fighting Batman, Boy Wonder!!!

Throttle snatch at the closed throttle transition has almost left the building! Throttle is smooth and predictable all the way up the RPM range, no matter what the load is! This is starting to feel like a high displacement, high torque, light flywheel V-Twin should feel. It revs into redline almost too easily. I am only distracted by having to pay attention to my rear view mirrors in case I am attracting the wrong type of attention. I don't need a performance award. That would put a crimp on my future dyno-tune budget.

All this means that I am more than a little concerned. This is the first time that I have ridden this bike with it running even remotely properly. I am worried about the safety of the motor (mostly because of the magnitude of the differences) so I am a little afraid to take it out anywhere at meaningful speed (engine load) in case I burn my exhaust valves or melt a hole in my piston crown. So I will be parking it until I get a feel for things. There are places where the F map that I had in it yesterday, and the map in it today, differ by up to 14 percent. Some of those places are possibly influenced by the fact that those same RPM regions have a dip in the 2nd throttle openings compared to the richer map.

This is starting to give me a headache, but at least the motor still runs, and in fact runs better than I ever expected it could. Now just to do some due diligence to verify that I'm not going to break it. If I was a risk taker, I'd just run with it the way it is, but I'm more of a belt and suspenders kind of person.

Having looked at the differences between the two maps sets, in the region of my major throttle snatch, I see two significant differences, but I am a motor tuning idiot, so I won't make any public comments. I'm almost certainly just confused. I would like to compare these to another map that works, especially if it is for an 07/08 vintage bike! Tony, our bikes are essentially identical in intake and exhaust, even if they have different logos on the products. I'll be sending you a PM! I could use some reference data as well as your recommendations regarding your tuner. Thanks again.
J.
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