Suspension Summary Please?

Ok there is lots out there and I have read most of all that is posted and now left without a definitive direction. With my main goal to make the bike more plush in the early hit along with back bone further in I am not sure how to proceed.
I am a moderately aggressive rider unfortunately limited to the tracks here in the NE with lots of rock, ruts and occasional soft sand. Also load up the panniers and take off with all i need to get to and camp at these riding areas so...

Options for front:
1. Fully adjustable drop in Ohlines cartridges for $1850
2. Less adjustable Bitubo drop in cartridges for $700
3. Hyperpro springs and oil

Rear:
1. Really just thinking the Ohlins unit as I'm not real concerned with trying to adjust the pre-load for every ride.
2. Tractive unit If there were some tested feed back but......

I realize this forum really doesn't need another suspension thread but in site from 800 riders with experience in any of these products would be valuable if it could be directed along these lines. I'm not a machinist or about to go swapping forks. Please offer what you can.
Thanks

Kit cartridge R-evolution http://www.mupo.it/files/allegati/catalogo-2012.pdf

I have had both the Hyperpro and the Bitubo.

The Hyperpro is a good bang for the buck and is an improvement. A variable weight spring that ranges from .52kg to .74kg. The oil is a band aid fix to a proper revalve.

I got the proper sag for my 200lb, but almost all of it occurred with the bike alone. My belief is the lighter coils closed together under bike weight and I was riding the heavy portion.

I would look for a straight wound coil spring that matches your weight. If you are close to proper sag, I would change spacer length to fine tune. I think they would ride easier and could be used with some future improvements.

The Bitubo insert comes with a .60kg spring(stock is .46). The biggest issue is they are gas pressurised and require special equipment to repressurise them. Not many places can do that.

May not be the case now, but at the time, 1 size fit all. The valving was stiff in the initial portion of the stroke, so a lot of felt impacts in casual riding.

I did not want to send them off, so I put on a Ohlins .55kg spring. It improved things. The faster I ride it, the better it gets. Still a little stiff in the easy stuff. A great set up for pavement.

I still have my old Hyperpro rear spring. No idea as to spring weight and really does not look like a variable rate. A good spring for easy dirt and pavement. Like the front, the shock spikes under high speed compression. Needs full rebound adjustment.

Strangely it is aging well. Fewer spikes as it wears out. I will keep it for a while longer or until the rebound is gone.

Thanks for the in depth info itsatdm. Hoping to hear from some riders that have gone the route of the cartridges from the Bitubo and Ohlins too. I know they are out there.....................
I'm not a heavy rider. 170 before gear so probably on the lighter end of the spectrum. I would need some serious guidance if I chose to just go the spring/oil direction. On my "dirt bikes" I never gave suspension quite so much consideration but now understand the benefit of how good they were even stock.

you left out the Traxxion Dynamics for $1200 and the Racetech for ?????

I read all I could, asked questions, and went with the Traxxion Dynamics. There is a thread here somewhere that talks about them at length.


P.S. if you are talking about the Ohlins USA kit there is a $350 installation charge also.

for the OP, I would have a serious think about how you ride. What you expect from the bike.

Be truthful. If you can bang along ok on a good enduro bike, like a modern 450, and you think spending a couple of grand will get the F8 to do this....well...it's all bad news.

if you want to basically do what you're doing now when off road, but do it with fewer "moments" and less time spent dodging anything that looks remotely like a rock, then it's achievable. But it'll cost you.



As much as I would like to think otherwise, it will always be a big fat pig in the bush. Spending a small fortune on the suspension will make it a comfortable, better handling, big fat pig. Maybe even make it more like what we called a "trail bike" in the 70's and 80's. But without committing a fortune and redesigning certain aspects of it, it will never be an enduro bike. Not even a big fat one.

I went the Ohlins option in the rear shock, then revalved it a couple of times, resprung it a couple, ended up with it working ok in the rear. Ohlins is way over priced and over rated IMHO. Ohlins only do a .55kg/mm spring for the front end. If you weigh about 220~240 ibs it'll still be too soft. Even with heavy oil. Ride with a pillion....the term pogo stick springs (swidt) to mind. Regardless of going heavier in the oil.

+1
Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 up front and Ohlins shock. I couldn't be happier.

(6'-1" 190, hard offroad alone and slow/easy offroad 2up with camping gear. It also is way better in the twisties)

I have Ohlins front/rear. They are both completely rebuildable, they do not need new gas cartridges. I have a long history with Ohlins ranging from MX to 125/250 GP RR. But like Snowy said you will only make it so good. The bike is big, I have gotten it setup pretty well but have modified the suspension twice, and sent it in once to have some intricate machine work done. You have to accept that it will never be an enduro or MX bike, but you can have a great time on them. Also rider weight is a huge deal, as well as what you carry on the bike. Look around and see, shy of popping out the forks and going with the KTMs or the shiver forks you have limited options.

First I shivered the forks and put Ohlins springs. Even with too thick oil and not yet adjusted shim stacks it is. Cost about $350.

After couple of months I got Tractive Extreme. Settings at the Touratech manual are for some kind road use and I have tried to find correct settings for trails. Still ongoing task but now the bike is not trying to throw me to the moon when landing hard or hitting a pit. Five days of pretty hard riding of rocky and bumby trails and went sweet all days.

Snowy hit it right on the nose regarding what you'll be able to get out of the bike.

I've had the Bitubo forks for about 16k miles now. I'm just waiting for them to suffer the inevitable and fabled "blow out"; riding on borrowed time. Once that happens, I'm not sure if I'll put a lot of money into getting them recharged (I have no idea what shops can do it, but I'm guessing none of them are nearby).

I hadn't heard what itsatdm mentioned about the Bitubos being "one size fits all", but it makes sense. They are a huge improvement over the stock forks precisely because of how stiff they are, but on the flipside it can make for a bit of harsh ride on rocky/square edge stuff.

On the rear I have the super-duper Hyperpro shock. It's nice, but from what I've seen on here pretty much any fully custom rear will get you where you want to go. It has a bajillion adjustments, none of which I have ever touched (except for the preload when I load it down with heavy boxes, but I've been using soft bags instead recently).

I find it very difficult to push this bike hard enough to really need to tweak settings beyond "better than stock".

There are other options out there. Check the thread in my signature. Far less and probably just as good as any drop in kit.

I certainly appreciate all the reply's with associated reasoning. Thanks. Still not sure what the correct direction for me is, Maybe stock for all I know???
I had an HP 2 with wilbers progressive front....hated it. Very harsh on the choppy rocky terrain. Not the rigt bike for me anyway so sold it.
Previous to that I had an 07 gs12 and loved it to death but pretty much abused it for it's very real diversified intent so guess what i did after the HP went down the road? Yes another 12. A 2011 1200GS and I love it to death x2 but don't want to destroy it with the inevitable falls and deep water crossings when they show up. I still have and ride it for the more laid back fun or long road work but picked up the 800 this past August and truthfully find the bike to be extremely fun for 90% of my riding.

The 800 is to be the one to guilt free ride off road after the usual 200 mile trip to the unloading at the camp site. Also the bike I will enjoy in places like Baja, TAT or some Rally fun. At 48 I do not intend to ride it like a 450 nor expect it to ever resemble one on the trails. Technical moderate speed riding is my taste when off road.
The problem if there is one is that the rocky stuff seems very harsh up front and I get horrible wheel hop on the rear over wash board terrain on acceleration and although i do not look to jump I do thoroughly enjoy the occasional launch when the right opportunity arises and the fear of bottoming out to the point of damage to the bike as others have mentioned leaves me feeling as though an upgrade could be worth while in my case.

If this information leaves most of you experienced 800 owners thinking these are things that can be overcome I want your experiences in this direction If not I will probably just continue to ride doing nothing more than the shock bolt upgrade until it feels right to try a particular upgrade.

Thanks again to any one with some advice in the direction needed.

I appreciate you and machinebuilder pointing these out. I did read about them somewhere but forgot to look further at them as an option. Will certainly rewind to include a good look at them.
THX

The Link to the tread is

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560331

I hope it helps

P 5 has a summary of what they offer.

I have started to tweak the damping adjustments slightly (1/4 turn in on both) I was having a minor bouncing at 25mph over small whoops. it seems to have helped. I still love them, it takes the jarring feel out of the bike. potholed Forest service roads at 50MPH is a hoot.

Traxxion AK-20 cartridges & fork caps and Elka 3 way adjustable ride height and with hydraulic preload adjustor is the best bang for your suspension dollars. $2,850.00 total.

Shivered Fork conversion. Works great, cost $500-700 give or take.

Gangplank....you have a far better grip on suspension knowledge as well as abilities than I have to deal with the short comings of the stock suspension!

I just see cartridges as the simple (hopefully effective) way to take handling up a few notches without investing the shop time with possibilities of screwing it up.
If the drop ins that have been mentioned are only marginally better that a spring and oil swap I will try to learn what I can from those that have gone that route.

I am wondering if anyone has gone the direction of involving someone like Max BMW in the attempt to improve. I believe they have helped quite a few HP riders with that stock set up.

The real goal was to simply order the parts be it cartridges or springs/oil and do the swap on a saturday and ride sunday with a noticeable improvement. I will be patient..................

I did the Traxxion AK 20 forks and had to raise the oil height to 95mm from top ( instead of the 110 - 115mm recommended) to dial it in to my liking. Ohlin's on the rear. Cost me over $2k, but it was transformational. It has survived torture with flying colors (literally). Darn expensive, but it works!

Kind of like that Deiserto (D3) fairing. So expensive you have to drink a 6-pack before pushing the "Buy" button. But the performance is so good, I've never regretted it (on either item). Figure the amortized cost of the mods are relatively small over the life of (my) ownership.....which appears to be long term.

Note: Race Tech wasn't an available option when I did my conversion. Well.....not that I recall, at least.

HF

P.s. I see you're in Virginia. Travis at GO Race Suspension in Christiansburg did my installation and fine tuning. His work is fantastic! He's done four different bikes for me.....all spot on. Call him up and chat with him about your specific questions. He reps all the brands (Traxxion, Ohlins, Race Tech, etc) so I don't think he is particularly biased, per se, other than recommending what would work best for your specific needs. There may be cheaper alternatives available now. The stock forks just plain SUCK. But the rest of the bike is happy.

DAMM!!!! Only a six pack for the Deiserto? Full bottle of 1800 for me but LORD KNOWS I LOVE IT!
Seriously though I have mentally committed to 2-2.5K for front and rear if necessary simply because I love the rest of the bike that much after 3500 miles since late August. A great machine for where I am and want in my life from a bike right now.
On your suggestion I will reach out to Go Race and get his take on the products available. I will try to keep the thread posted if it survives in the mean time. Not my intent to keep alive if no new info comes in.

Still waiting for an Ohlins front tester...............

Thanks everybody. This forum has some great inmates

Desert Dave had a set up that improved stock. I can't remember the shop name, but they were associated with Livermore BMW. Unfortunately it folded, but did some mods on the side.

I did talk to the Guru and he told me the basic problem was the cartridge flowed too much oil. His cure was to close off some of the holes in the bottom of the cartridge and replace with smaller holes further up.

The devil is in the details and I do not know what they are. I still have the stock cartridge and if the Bitubo goes belly up, I may experiment.

It sounded a lot like a typical damping rod fix.