A question for Harley riders, no disrespect.

Choosing to not ride ATGATT, and denying its benefits are two entirely different things.

Well said!

Logic and reason is part of the recipe, as much as is passion.

Too much logical reasoning might lead to living life only in response to fear.

Too much unbridled passion may cloud awareness for potential danger.

As balance is applied between reason and passion the result delivers a satisfying life full of the rewards accomplishment brings. Pushing the edges of the envelope at these opposing sides from time to time, seldom lingering there. The art of life is best played out exploring the shades of grey between the two extremes. Linger on either edge and quality of life can quickly be diminished, or extinguished entirely.

Isn't maintaining this balance the dynamic process that is called living?

The laws of physics require no police or courts for enforcement.

Like ordinary laws, ignorance is no excuse. This ignorance is not confined to the Harley riders, but is does seem more prevalent among certain groups. Pirates and squids come readily to mind.

I feel boatload more peer pressure to wear gear than I do to go without. Maybe if I rode a cruiser or a Harley the pressure would go the other way? I think a ton of people wear gear to fit in, not necessarily because of safety.

And it doesn't bother me either way. I'll wear what I feel comfortable and safe in.

If the general sez on this mission one of three will die, one soldier looks to the guy on the left and the guy right and sez I'll look after your girlfriend.
If the general sez one out of a hundred will die, some people have the attitude that one will be me.

Inborn attitudes in of all of us. It won't happen to me is what these guys think.

Did anyone do that?

Is it? Who knows. Sure is, you're very complacent, trying to tell us how to live a satisfying life.

I was rear ended on my Ducati and flew 40' and landed on my head knocking me unconscious for a few minutes. I'm writing this thanks to my Shoei full cover helmet. Everyone has choices and I'm thankful for mine that day. I have been riding for 46 years and have worn the best protective gear that was available at the time. Oh yeah, the Ducati was totalled as well as the Shoei.

New Zealand, 2006 or so, and "yes". White or light colored jackets and helmets reduce incidence of multi-vehicle collision by 28%.

Not all motorcycles have large frontal areas. If you sit behind a huge white/yellow fairing, maybe the color of the jacket isn't as important, but the helmet might be. And with daytime running lights pretty much standard on cars now, the moto headlight doesn't stand out as much as it used to.

All my friends wear Aerostich RoadCrafters, hi-viz body with black ballistics (shoulders and forearm patches). Then they wear a traditional conspicuity vest (black with yellow reflective stripes) over the jacket- hiding most of the hi-viz. :huh I wear grey with yellow shoulders / forearms, sometimes a vest, sometimes not. Helmets are white (modular) or silver (full face). depending on if I'm riding across town or cross country.

Of course, the stats may be skewed- because if someone's going to think about safety enough to buy a white helmet over a black one, they may also take other aspects of riding safety more seriously.

77% of all moto crashes are the rider's fault, another 10% or so were avoidable by rider action.

As for riders choosing what [not] to wear when they go riding, I'm in the camp that thinks the ones who don't wear much, don't put much serious thought into it. I've been told "since I'm likely to die anyway, why wear all that junk?" which clearly discounts the thought that "all that junk" might reduce the level of injury. Not to mention, it can actually be more comfortable, if they get past the immediate perception, to gear up a little.

It's hard to properly place values on negative risk outcomes. This is a survival trait*, or we'd all still be in trees, throwing poop at the lions.

*As a species overall, not necessarily for the individual in particular; that is, the survivors can learn from the mistakes made by the recently deceased.

It'd be interesting to know what's different between NZ and Europe. Here there is no evidence of color effecting crashes and 70% of the multi vehicle accidents are the cager's fault.

It's a pitty you join into the less self-reflecting crowd that thinks "who doesn't think like me doesn't think at all".

As well as it's sometimes more comfortable to leave the gear at home.

Thanks for the heads up, checked out thier site, I'll be getting a pair of thier jeans to replace my draggin jeans. Good stuff !

Good points. OTOH, some may think that Hi-Vis gear and conspicuity lighting or headlight modulators can make you invincible. They don't-- all they can do is even the odds a bit that those who drive with awareness will see you; to the brain-dead, you're still invisible and you should ride like you are. Situational awareness and a well-tuned Spidey Sense still helpout...

--Bill

In my view if you wear gear you will live til you are old and if you dont wear gear you will end up dieing young.

i ride in full gear and wear a full face or a mx helmet.

Read this:
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=944301

Wanna tell that story to the mother and wife of the 41 year old killed yesterday here in my town?

Hit the back end of a pickup in heavy interstate traffic when cars in his lane suddenly slowed. Fell off the bike after impact and rolled into an adjacent lane where he was run over by other car.

Full face helmet and top-noth gear is no match when run over by a 3000+lb car.

Gear is important but by no means a guarantee that one will live to an old age.

But wearing gear will be better then no go if you slid down the road.

That sounds like a riding skills issue more than a lack of gear issue. No reason to run into the back of a car unless you dont have sufficient braking skills, or you're not paying attention. Dont even get me started on the lack of training offered to riders in this country. Or, how its perfectly legal to walk into a dealer and buy a 1000lb bike with no experience and a piece of paper that you filled in at the DOT the same day. Without demonstrating any proficiency.
That my friends, is a whole other debate.

+1

Don't disagree.

We here on ADV are exceptional riders and never make mistakes so I'm obviously preaching to the choir but most motorcycle accidents are rider error.

Does wearing more gear lead to increased risk taking?

Most here would probably say "no, not for me". I think otherwise.

Would you run through the nicest series of twisties at the same pace if in shorts, no helmet, and no gloves as you would fully geared? Of course this question really only applies to those that have ridden on occasion without all the gear......if you've never ridden without gear you really can't honeslty answer the question. My guess is without gear we would ride a little slower, wouldn't push the corners quite so hard, would leave a little more space between the cars in front, and slow a little more when appraoching an intersection or blind curve.

If you can honestly answer your riding would not change then you are an incredibly disciplined rider and my hats off to you.

Just something to think about, agree or disagree, no worries.

All good points Bill.

I wear a well constructed 100% canary yellow textile jacket with black leather pants in preference to a all leather outfit. Would a leather jacket provide better protection when I'm sliding down the road? No doubt. However I feel my overall safety is significantly better by trying to avoid a problem in the first place.

However sometime when its bucketing down rain and I have to get to work dry, I'll wear an old snow ski jacket and pants. If you ski in Australia you'll know why our ski gear has to be 100% waterproof. Anyhow, to the point. The ski cloths are dark blue and grey.

I certainly don't feel invincible when I wear my 100% yellow jacket, but I sure as hell feel really vunerable when I wear the dark coloured ski gear.