<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> That comparison has been done 1000 times, and I read 999 of them. There is one twist though, I am considering newer KLR with 685 kit installed against adventure modded DR: tank, seat, windshield, lowered pegs, front and real suspension, carb job, luggage rack, lights etc., but no HP cylinder/cam. So what outperforms: 2008+ KLR685 or adventure modded DR650? Comfort on a long distance HWY run, say 10 hours at 110 -120 km/h GPS verified speed and long term reliability are to compare. I expect the DR is much better when it gets to the dirt part, but KLR is sufficient for me. There is new Terra out there, but in Canada it is $9000, that I cannot afford. And I am aware of multi cylinder options as well. The application is my weekend outdoor excursions. Slabbing for 500 to 800 km one way at GPS verified 110 120 km/h speed. Then there are 100 to 400 km of mountain dirt roads with wash outs, broken bridges, avalanche slides, river beds to cross which my currently utilised Vstrrom is either unable to, or I do not dare. Then I am back on a HWY again, duration is 3 days maximum. There is always ultra light camping gear on the rack, and I always ride solo. Once I have had a 2009 bone stock KLR. The bike had absolutely the best ergo, and excellent weather protection. It had everything I need in its stock form. But it was nightmare reliability wise. Something or another went wrong daily. It also was gutless, sustainable speed was 95 km/h (GPS), with no passing power whatsoever. DR650 is considerably lighter, has a wee wider gear spread, its front sprocket is changed in minutes, and runs 120 km/h effortlessly all day long. But the amount of upgrades needed to make it KLR alike scares me off, and secondly, evidences are the DR might not be as reliable as it seems: there are cases of rear hub issues and 3 gear blowing. [FONT="]Both, DR and KLR, have documented cases of extensive frame damages.[/FONT]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->
New DR or new KLR? I'd go DR, but I'd need lower pegs and a few things...too cramped for me as it sits. New KLR is markedly heavier than the 1st gen KLRs. You'll cut into the weight difference a bit to give the DR a similar fuel range, but not that much... That said, no way in hell I'd sell my well sorted (for me) 2002 KLR with 40K miles to get a DR. The KLR isn't a speed demon by any measure, but if your highest sustainable speed was 95 km/hr, it wasn't running right for sure. Both bikes have their issues, but they are all easily fixable. Both make great ADV bikes...good luck!!
DR tend to have less mechanical issues than KLR. Both are very reliable but DR a bit more rock solid so. The KLR will probably be faster. The DR somewhat better off-road.
I have owned a 2008 DR650 since new and have modified it to its max with RMZ forks, Cogent rear shock, and I'm guessing 50 hp and 50mpg at 60 or so. It is simply fantastic off road considering it weighs 360+. I owned a 2002 KTM 640 dual sport that had about the same power and didn't handle as good. I have taken it on 1000+ mile trips set up like this and it always runs perfect. I took it on a trip with two 1500+cc cruisers and they thought it seemed to accelerate as fast or better. That said I just bought a 2009 KLR with fork work and springs for my weight and a Moab shock, also a 688 piston. Compared to the DR it is a slug even with the 688 but I bought it because of the extras already on it and I wanted a bike that was simply physically larger so that I could haul tent and camping stuff without it crowding my seat position. Since its winter here I have only ridden it for a test drive and it sits in my garage getting my final touches for long distance cruising- I have plans to take it to Texas in the next year or two. I do not expect it to replpace the off road prowess of my DR but it replaces my previous road cruiser- a 2009 DorsoDuro that I also took to Texas. I will put somewhat compromised tires on the KLR for the road instead of the Kenda K270's I usually run on my DR. Here are some pics of both bikes. The DR is in the background with a newly powder coated frame and the KLR is being wired for GPS and heated jacket: Here is the DR before powder coating with Kenda 760's ( I didn't like them off road): The KLR as I bought it:
Dr's and Klr's are great bikes but after reading Colebatch's journals I would get a low mileage X bike. Low mileage for the little BMW would probably be any under ten grand in mileage. They idenified just about all the problems that caused so many people to short them. Its about the same dry weight as a DR . If you are going all in on an adventure bike you need to look at these closely. Whats nice now is you can pick them up in the 4-5 thousand used price range. What ever you get you are going to end up putting in a couple of grand to kit it up. The Beemer will run circles around the other two on any kind of road maybe not in technical type stuff but if you are loaded up you are probably not going real fast anyways. Just my humble opinion. I was going to sell my Xcountry and get a DR no way now. The Sibirsky Group is way ahead of the curve on these bikes and it would behoove you to read the RR's.
But, I bet the Sibirsky group has alot more money than the average Klr or Dr Owner. You have to consider that.
Guys, I really do need your responses and I very much appreciate what I have got so far. But let me specify even more what two bikes I am interested in and what is their application. 1. 2008 and later KLR650, having 685 or 688 kit installed. So it is 2008+ KLR685. The doo is fixed, the suspension is set for my weight. 2. Adventurised DR650, i.e. a DR which resembles above mentioned KLR. It has a tank of similar range, seat, rack, some windshield, foot pegs are lowered, usual carb mods, suspension is adjusted to my weight. But no bigger piston, no hot cam. For the application I quote myself " The application is my weekend outdoor excursions. Slabbing for 500 to 800 km one way at GPS verified 110 120 km/h speed. Then there are 100 to 400 km of mountain dirt roads with wash outs, broken bridges, avalanche slides, river beds to cross which my currently utilised Vstrrom is either unable to, or I do not dare. Then I am back on a HWY again, duration is 3 days maximum. There is always ultra light camping gear on the rack, and I always ride solo." I am 180 cm height, 90 kg in gear, ultra light camping gear including bags is 15 kg. "Comfort on a long distance HWY run, say 10 hours at 110 -120 km/h GPS verified speed and long term reliability are to compare." Currently I am not interested in their off road abilities, because they are all good enough for the purpose. Many of you say for example "80 mph is fine", please be specific, is the speed you are talking about a true one, or it is what speedo says? We all know most of them are optimistic by 7 to 10%. When we are talking for covered mileage, like "I done a 1000 mile trip", please tell if it was done in one day or in a month. What do the experts think?
My Dr650 trips were 2 to 3 day weekends for up to 1000 miles and 3 to 4 day trips at 1000 to 1200 miles. I am 6'1" 220 lbs plus riding gear and 40lbs min. camping gear and 35 inch inseam. My pegs have been lowered about 3/4" on the DR and back about 1/2". I made the lowering brackets myself so you'll not find that exact match. Like I said the KLR is somewhat larger front to back and allows more room for camping gear and other soft bags. I will lower the pegs in the future. My DR will cruise at 80 GPS confirmed speed- for about half an hour once. but I rarely go over 65 on highways and rarely go on freeways at all if there is an alternate route. Really 75 is the fastest I would say that its OK to cruise at. Its just more enjoyable to go on the back routes. The stock DR will reach this speed as easily as my built one. I have spent many 10 hour days on the DR both on and off road. I can't imagine you making a decision on someone else's experiences without riding each bike. By the way I found the OEM handlebars on the KLR way to wide and tall for my liking which is primarily based on moto-x experience. It appears that most prefer the extra height though. Looking at your weight I think you'll need to change the springs in either bike.
Reliability wise, the 2 bikes are probably equal but for loaded road travel the KLR would be the one I would pick... It has the larger physical size which means a roomier more comfortable platform when it is under load... As far as gravel road ability, the DR would be better when running empty but loaded up with gear that advantage would shrink and likely be a non issue... I've heard Adv Grifter mention that the DRs frames aren't up to heavy loads when riding on rough ground and can be prone to fail, but it sounds like you run a lighter load so that should also be a non issue... I've done lots of riding on both a loaded and unloaded KLR but have no experience on a luggage equipped DR... The longest day I've run on my KLR was about 700 KM and being 2 up I was long past the point where we should of stopped... 700 wouldn't of been a problem solo bit I would say that 500 KM going 2up that day would of been a better target......The times I have ridden the DR I was impressed by its overall smoothness... I tried one with a Sargent seat and found it pretty comfy, but to me the DR felt small and a little cramped... Maybe it was because I was coming off a larger framed bike... So on the road the roomier KLR would be the better choice for cruising distance, especially when you take into account the 685 kit... Both bikes should do OK cruising at 110 KMH with a little reserve left for passing... I remember on my older KLR if I cruised at 110 I was fine but 120 it would use a bit of oil and a lot more fuel... The 685 kit is supposed to cure some of those woes... With either of these bikes, the hwy cruising manners are going to be a big step down from your V-Strom... A good rule of thumb I like to use with thumpers on the hwy is to try not cruise at over 2/3 throttle... For example: at 120kmh my 640 runs at about 5500 RPM which is just under 2/3 of the way to the 8500 redline... The 640 engine makes max power at 6500 so I still have an easy burst of reserve to 140 for passing... The best thing to do is to try both bike out and decide,If nothing about either bike jumps out ahead of the other to impress you then flip a coin... If the coin stands up on edge then look for something else...
That is true. To my defense, I live in Edmonton, Canada. Edmonton's population is around 800 000, in Calgary live another 1 000 000, and probably another 500 000 at the rest of the province. How many of them do you think ride those bikes equipped as I described? Anyway, " Once I have had a 2009 bone stock KLR. The bike had absolutely the best ergo, and excellent weather protection. It had everything I need in its stock form. But it was nightmare reliability wise. Something or another went wrong daily. It also was gutless, sustainable speed was 95 km/h (GPS), with no passing power whatsoever." that is quote from my original post. So I know and like KLR in general. But it is said 685 kit transforms the bike. Just like to know how? Do 3or 4 extra ponies add enough to gain 20 -25% of sustainable speed? My feeling was beyond 95 km/h GPS speed it was going to explode. I do understand my requirements sound strange, but my riding is in British Colunbia, the nearest points to enter into wilderness are Radium Hot Springs ~ 500 km from my house, and Clear Water area ~ 700 - 900 km. I am very time constrained by something else so the only ride I can do is to get to those points as fast as I can, takes 5 to 10 hours, run some roads or trails, and rush back in, another 5 to 10 hours. So all of my rides are at least 1500 km, average 2000 in 3 days maximum, often 2.5.
I'll agree, 75 is the fastest I feel comfortable cruising at. I'm generally between 70-75 (gps, ends up being 80 indicated) on freeways. My last long freeway trip (not even that long) was a six hour ride up I5 from LA to San Francisco. It was miserable (mostly due to the cold, but the bike didn't help). Keep in mind, I have the stock seat and no wind protection. A new seat & windscreen would help things quite a bit. The bike just doesn't sound that great at 80+ mph speeds. I don't think 75mph+ speeds are that healthy for the bike either (with stock gearing)...I had a seeping valve cover gasket by the time I got home. For extended high speed freeway riding, in no way would I recommend a DR650. Perhaps with a decent windscreen & seat it would be ok, but it simply isn't built to go that fast comfortably. It's not fun riding 70+mph and having cars pass you going 10+ mph faster. The bike has little if any passing power at those speeds. Heck, even riding the hour to OHV parks (Carnegie or Metcalf) is a bit sucky because of the freeway. Offroad/gravel or anything slower than freeway speeds I'd pick the DR650.
Pretty clear the OP is set on either a KLR or DR650. On the X Challenge ... have you followed Colebatch's reports for long? I have, going back to when he rode S. America years ago. Also followed his extensive build, re-build ... and re-build again on his X Chal. Tons of stuff wore out or failed on his bike, hence more re-builds. He's truly wedded to his X Chal. No idea how he pays for all this. Do you have any idea of all the serious ... and expensive modifications he's done on that bike? Both those X Chal's are total custom jobs. Nothing is stock ... and they still breakdown. (read Colebatch's Morocco report) A conservative estimate would be $15,000 USD into Colebatch's bike if you count re-builds ... plus the cost of the machine initially. X series BMW's carry forward many of the old problems from the F650 line. The closer you look, more you will see.
You must be confusing me with someone else ... I've never said that ... if anything I usually defend the DR as being super strong. Far as I know only ONE DR650 has cracked the frame ... that would be Jammin Jay : http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556240 Jay's DR frame now has 78,000 miles ... not Kms. . He packs about 250 lbs. on board and has ridden several continents, now in Africa. May be a few other DR's have cracked ... can't recall, but far from a common thing. Search the big DR thread. You won't find anything. KLR's have some history of broken frames and sub frames, but 1st generation ones and not common. Good advice. Both are good bikes and BOTH have great potential.
Not to mention they aren't manufactured anymore and there's about one or fewer on the used market on the average day.
Can you link to any reports of DR650 "frame damage" ? Note my earlier post regards Jammin Jay ... his frame did crack ... but beyond Jay, not many DR's have had this issue. Come over to the BIG DR650 thread if you have any DR650 questions. Some good guys there. The DR650 3rd Gear issue and Hub bearing issues are more real. Weird thing is it seems to be mostly riders in Australia. No idea why. Very few failed 3rd gears in North America ... but it does happen. There is a list of broken bikes ... it's got it's own thread. About 30 in all ... works out to about 1/10 of 1% of all DR650's. I'm up to 50,000 miles ... still on original wheel and Hub bearings. Maybe the Aussies ride lots of rivers and streams ... and don't regrease the bearings? No idea.
Are you talking about a DR650? If you take the time to set up your DR650 I think you'd be surprised how good it is at Freeway speeds. But remember ... speed limits in Canada are ridiculously LOW ... can't equate US cruising speeds to Canada. They drive like 50 mph everywhere there. Freeway speeds going out 580 to Carnegie are like 75 to 80 mph, right? Any slower and you'll be road kill. Most Canadians have never even ridden that fast ... because there's a cop at every corner. Never seen so much enforcement. (I've ridden across Canada TWICE) :eek1 A good seat is a MUST on the DR650 ... pretty much the same on the KLR. I don't like wind shields but many run them on DR's. Lots of DR riders don't have their drive lines in order; have worn chains or sprockets, mis-aligned, snail adjusters and worn rubber cush drive bumpers. A Fresh chain and sprockets along with new Cush rubbers can make a world of difference with smoothness on the DR. Mine is totally content (stock gearing) at 75 mph indicated (70 mph actual) and I've cruised much faster out on Highway 5 were average speeds are 80 mph. I also rode up from the South ... from Mexico. From San Diego to San Fran ... 80 mph the whole way. Gotta love a Corbin seat. Mine's at 50K miles and loves to cruise fast. It's been through 118F heat in Death Valley too ... happy as a clam with full synthetic oil. No oil use, full compression. Valves stay in spec. All good.
Bikerooter cracked a DR frame on this ride. http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379786 ,page 4 was the first crack. And page 5 was the next crack. The bikes were loaded up with fuel and water and it was on a very hard ride though, it does happen, but it isn't a common occurrence... I am only mentioning it because I was reading the ride report again today...
Not too many HWYs I've ridden in Canada where the speed limit is 50, a 2 lane narrow maybe, but most of those are 90 {55}... A 2 lane wide is usually 100 {60} and a four lane + will go 110 {70} or more...
Epic ride report! I've never read that one, will check it out! Have you heard or seen of any other broken DR frames since then? That report was from 2008 ... and I now remember you posting those pics before. Jeez, those kids are probably all grown up by now! How's your DR going Rev? PS: both those pics are the SAME bike.
We are not newbe's, having owned 22 quality bikes since 1994, 2 R1200GSA and 4 KLR650. Of the KLR 2001, 2008, 2009, 2012, loved them all, all stock, all 20,000 before being sold, all mint condition, all toured loaded, and dual sport ridden, 01 and 09 even sported a sidecar for 10,000 miles each. We have kept up with KTM 990 on large Adventure dual sport rides no problem, could they have pressed harder and left us behind - Yes, would some have gotten hurt yes, why? Sometime to much power in back country is worthless. We sold our 2001 this summer and it l left for Prudhoe Bay Alaska the next week in the same trim we toured in, great bike. We fell in love with the 08+ bikes because of smoother operation, better faring, brakes, suspension etc. Although I never felt the need to do any modifications in 60,000 KLR miles, I am considering the Progressive 465 rear shock and Mono shock fork gas inserts to see what they will do, so far our new 2012 KLR is handling perfectly, no previous model steering wobble with HT PD bars, engine guard and skid plate, and Moose racing Pelican pannier set. Ok seats sort of suck, put Sargent seat on previous bike good but fragile material and Meyers on the 2012 so far so good. In 60,000 miles, we never broke down - ever, of course we had some hardware come loose, not fall off, we believe in preventive maintenance. If you want a faster bike, buy one, If you want a reliable one leave it alone, maintain it and ride it. The KLR will take you anywhere any other dual sport bike will, unlike the bikes leaning more toward dirt, the KLR will do well on dual sport rides and exceptionally well on the road with the right seat. We often though about buying more dirt bike dual sports DR650, XR650L, KTM, but none of them for us was comfortable on the road, we live near Oakland, CA. (city) all the great riding for us is hours away, we need road comfort, we can always compensate for the dirt section. Our last dual sport ride 2 hours to the ride, 6 hour dual sport ride and 2 hours home 10 hours total, comfort is mandatory for us, no worried, the KLR in capable hands can hold it's own in the dirt, and no it isn't a dirt bike. These guys ride hard, when you look up at the speed limit sign and it reads 35 and your speedo reads 75 it's hammer time. Always ride withing you skill level, ride within the limits of the bike design and wear waterproof shorts .
