How long to feel confident on bike?

Both Twist of the Wrist, Total Control are also essential reading.

I got a motorcycle license 2 years before I could drive a car, there are still times my spidey senses get going. You don't want to get to comfortable, that shit will get you run over.

Sometimes it's the bike. I find myself more ill at ease on small, light bikes with short wheelbases than on big sleds like oilheads, especially at freeway speeds.

I went out this morning on a longer ride, I've now got about 170km under my belt. I am feeling MUCH more confident. My MSF course is June 7th but they contacted me a couple days ago to say there is a good chance it will be cancelled for lack of enrollment and the next one isn't until mid July! If that happens I may just try and do the road test on my own and skip the course all together.

Even if you take and pass the test beforehand, take the class. I promise you'll learn something.

See if you can go watch someone taking the test , then you know what to work on.

If buy 5k, you don't enjoy riding, or are still uneasy, it may not be for you.

I don't it should be forced on a person. Some people want a bike, cause they have something in there mind. He got the courage up to buy one, and tried it. It is not for everyone.

Motorcycles are dangerous, if you don't enjoy it, I don't see the point in taking the risk. Not saying a guy should be a pro at 5k, and hot dogging. But by 5k, he should feel comfortable over 40mph. He still has room to be a better rider. But he should enjoy it by now, and feel a little comfortable. I agree with what was said, you should still have respect for them though.

If you don't enjoy riding, why do it?


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Is this 5k miles or km? If we are talking 3 miles. Take the course, and see how you like it. Either way, I disagree with the mindset to force riding on people.

+1, That would definetly be a good thing!

in my limited experience, you hafta have a real passion for riding to overcome the anxiety, incidental terror, and occasional straight-up pain that defines the first couple years or 2K miles that typefy the n00b experience. once you "find your comfort," though -- and for some it comes much quicker given dirt experience or just raw talent (which i lack) -- it becomes transcendental. for some folks, the learning process is just not worth it, emotionally, or at least, the balance of pain to pleasure doesn't come up in the black, and they shouldn't be pushed further. but for those folks that you can sense a real love of two wheels, or an independent spirit that could find a lot of fulfillment in motorbiking, give 'em the support!

Don't skip the class. So you passed a test. How many tests have you passed and didn't know much about the class.

BRC is a learning thing. I took the first one after about 20 odd years in the saddle.There wasn't any such thing at the time I began riding. I realized very quickly the things I didn't know, the things that had been improved upon, and the really bad habits I had learned and needed to unlearn.

You have a whole 170 KM under your belt, less than 110 miles. At the time I took my first one, I had over 600,000 miles. I also had an excellent teacher, well three, that had logged a lifetime of riding by the time I decided to start. They did it in the days of crappy quality as we know it now, and even worse brakes. Suicide clutches and jokey shifts were a thing of beauty to them.

You can never learn too much. Take the class.

Good Luck

I got confirmation today that the course is going forward so that's awesome :)

Amen. I rode for many years (illegally) before testing out at the DMV. Then I rode for many more before I finally took the class. And I STILL learned a lot in the class.

If experience is the best teacher, why are elderly drivers so bad? Never stop learning, and never stop practicing.

well I did the 3 hour theory portion of the class, and all in all was pretty disapointed. Nothing new compared to studying for the licensing test and reading proficient motorcycling. Cant wait until Monday evening when we get on the bikes! I'm 6'3 and about 280lbs and apparently they have klx 140, 1 super shepra and 1 klx 250 to learn on... should be... interesting... I hope I get the 250 haha. I am the biggest guy in the class so I better :)

I felt the same way about the first day as well. I left thinking that maybe I had wasted my money. When we got out on the range on the weekend though, I decided that the class was actually pretty cheap...

I am feeling pretty confident now on the bike but gusting side winds are really messing with me haha. Anything over about 18mph and I can really notice it. I had to ride home in the low 30s and it felt really dangerous.

The MSF course was worth it, although I felt that it was lacking. They almost need to add another day where everyone goes out on the road.

The MSF offers two street courses (Street RiderCourse 1 & 2), but I would guess they're not commonly offered in most programs. We don't offer it in ours, and I don't personally know any that do. But check with your local programs to see if they do.

You might think about going on an organized ride put on by a dealership. In my area (Central California), the BMW dealership puts on regular rides for different levels of riders. They will give a description of the ride, such as easy adventure ride, or advanced off road. You show up with a full tank, they give you free doughnuts, and you spend half a day riding a loop with an experienced leader who's goal is for everyone to have a good time, while travelling at legal speeds. They obviously do this in hopes that you will some day buy a BMW, but they don't try to sell anything.

If something like this is available near you, pick the easiest ride they have for street, and ride at your own pace. If you get separated from the group, you can catch them at the next stop, but you will likely learn a lot from riding with them.

I think its crazy to buy a bike and ride on the street to learn these days.
I started riding when I was 14 in the dirt, and rode a LOT, before I rode in traffic on the street.
And there was a lot less traffic back then, and no cell phones or gps, or even cup holders in cars.
And it was 10 years I think before I got a bike with over 40 hp and 400 pounds.

I never had an issue with a car or truck, or blew a turn in 38 years, but it takes all my skill and knowlage to keep it that way.

I know of many people who had very bad crashes in the first 2 years of riding that do not ride anymore.

I was lucky enough to learn like you did, but most people don't have that luxury. Most don't have easy access to an off-road bike much less off-road trails. If people are willing to take classes and ride well within their ability, there's no reason not to start on a street bike.

brother... (if I may call you that) as a noob myself that has gained a certain base level of confidence I hope I might be able to lend some insight through my experience.

in late February I purchased my first street bike. (09 R1200Gs) many years ago I had owned/ridden dirt bikes, but it had been in fact many years. (20? give or take) so while I knew how to shift etc, I was obviously rusty and had no real viable insight into the (what turned out to be significant) differences between dirt and street.

the first step was to take a two day MSF course. having no bike I used one of their loaner 250's. the course was of HUGE benefit. just mounting the bike and walking it around, starting, using the clutch and brakes, easing it up a grade etc. HUGE deal.

but driving around a course at 25mph etc is still not really much training for what the near future held.

push to turn? what is that? rotfl

after obtaining the MSF cert enabling me to get a MC license I was ready! (lol)
took a bit to find a bike and a means to go retrieve it... about 175 miles to ride home through Friday afternoon commuter traffic. yea. thankfully I had about 50 miles of two lane through the high desert prior to hitting the highway and corresponding gridlock. slipping the clutch walking the bike through the bumper to bumper traffic up a two mile grade of four lane highway was a real world practice in why we allow lane splitting in California... but then again I was in no way ready for that! that weekend I tooled around taking it for a bit of get acquainted rides... after all Monday my expected commute was yet another 175 miles each direction.

Come Monday... back on the freeway again! this time I was cruising along thinking "how in the hell is this ever going to not be nerve wracking?" push to turn, push to turn... lean. wholly crap. going up and down fast sections of highway was insane. what I could do 90 in a nicely suspended car I found myself following semi's instead to keep out of the way of the cars, trucks and delivery vans zipping by! and then the wind. omfg the wind. on the I10 and up through the Morongo Valley to 29 palms the wind is intense.

(don't take my word for this... check this out: http://www.shltrip.com/Wind_Turbines.html )

a couple weeks with numerous 350 mile round trip commutes and I was a bit more comfortable. but far from comfortable. I was confident... only in that I was going to conquer this issue.

one day on my way home I stopped by a fishermans market and grill in Beaumont where I spotted a couple gentleman making note of the bike. entering the restaurant, one of them inquired about the bike... our following conversation was enlightening and where I also learned about "Iron Butt". They were a bit stunned upon learning it was my first bike... they invited me to sit with them for dinner and this was my first experience with the Moto Rider Camaraderie that I have since become very appreciative of.. basically it was a very cool experience.

flash forward a few months... five to be exact, and over 18k miles, I have to say it really is all about the time, and quality time, spent in the saddle. speaking of quality time... following others with similar bikes who have much more skill.

for instance: I walked in a local dealership, met a very cool guy working there and was invited on a local ride. (to visit rawhide during the one-world on-GS tour) when our group met for the ride, we were introduced and it was mentioned to ride within ones comfort zone. This put me at ease because here I was, riding less than a month I was a bit nervous to be in such accomplished company. During the ride I realized there were numerous riders that while they had much more time in the saddle, they preferred a rather relaxed pace. Other did not and preferred a more sporty ride. I preferred the later and ended up toward the group that rode a bit faster. Positioning myself toward the end of that group I found myself behind a gentleman with an ADV setup 1200GS (not r1200gsa, just a none gs/adventure but with the bike setup for adv riding) to include Heidenau K60’s. I thought “if that guy can do it with knobbies, I can sure as hell do it with road tires. (oem battlewings) following that guy up hwy 2 (angles crest hwy) and other roads was of unimaginable benefit. Same basic bike, so his shift points, suspension and everything else meant I could emulate him, with his limitation being on the K60’s allowed me some breathing room. This was my second time ever on twisty two lane blacktop, and the first time I scrapped my right foot peg it was a real eye opener. Never mind the time I swept my left foot off the peg under the bike. (indeed unnerving. Definitely a lesson learned… do not pigeon toe around the twisties.) quite frankly I don’t think I would have ever tried riding the way I did that day without following another experienced rider on the same bike as mine. This ride elevated my riding skill months if not years beyond how I would have advanced by riding solo. FACT. And I was not riding behind yahoo’s or squids… these guys were experienced riders, two of which worked at the dealership. I owe these guys and the others I rode with that day a debt of gratitude they probably will never fully appreciate.

Here I am… but a noob yet. Some confidence gained, earned to be more precise, but much experience and skill obviously to be had.

In summary my best advice would be… find some experienced riders with similar bikes that will let you hang with them a bit. I didn’t bug them or bother asking too many questions, instead preferring just to chill and take in the experience. I don’t need a bunch of ding dongs prodding me to do something stupid nor do I need somebody telling me what I can’t do… these folks were chill and good people. Although they knew a shit-load, they don’t act like know it all’s either. Usually I am a fairly keep it to myself guy… not anti-social, just not all that social anymore. But this is the case where social fits well and I believe I shall enjoy continuing being a bit social in this aspect.

Second recommendation: ride as much as feasible, mixing it up in the process. Push yourself a bit at times, but keep it real also. There’s no fun in boredom, but there’s no fun in dying or being crippled either… find a happy medium. I’ve found myself pushing the clock a bit at times and done some self-adjustments to reel it in.

ymmv. I consider myself a relatively fast learner. (with a unique learning curve that seems to rise quick for some time but has a plateau before starting to rise again. seems i'm cruising across the plateau for the time being...) we are all different and need to recognize and respect this. makes the world that much a better place.

The adventure continues…

btw did I mention "push to turn"?


yea, still lol at that one. now I use a combination of body language while riding... but that initial "push to turn" is interesting.

that and figuring out which direction you turn better and which is your handicap. most turn left better while I find it easiest to turn right. strange stuff this street biking... :eek1

(there was an article in a BMW MOA Owners News magazine I inherited with the motorcycle purchase that gave some tips on how to advance your turning skills to include addressing the handicap. good stuff.)