Ask Woody about your KTM 19/17 wheel set-ups

10 June 2014...quick review /update....It's 5 years since i started this thread,,,,we've been putting the 19/17 on 1150's and 1190s since their inception....having someone copy your ideas and products is a form of flattery i'm told... i guess i should feel flattered that the 2014 1190 ADV sports 19/17 rubber straight from the factory these days

in the next few days i'll spiff up this post so ya don't have to wallow through years of Yakking......kinda like the ''good parts version '' of 'The Princess Bride''

FYI,,,,this thread is dedicated to synthesizing and collating as much info on this topic in one easy to use place. I'm starting this off with a quick review of the highlights advantages/disadvantages/trade-offs of the conversion,,,and providing some links to threads/posts/pictures that provide you with interesting info/opinions/data accumulated over the years. I'm doing this to cut to the chase on this topic and help ease the pain of wading thru tons of searches..i need your help too,,,so if you find some new and better data or links,,,POST em!!!

here we go,,,,this upgrade transforms your bike from a great dirt bike to an awesome touring...canyon carving,,,grin-eating experience!!!,,simply by swapping your wheels

Here's the advantages:
1..greatly improved road handling and enhanced canyon carving ability
2,,,increased braking
3,,,sits 3/4''-19mm lower to the ground,,the inseam challenged folks love this,,makes it easier to maneuver while sitting on the bike
4,,,access to the largest selection of dual-sport tires
5,, with stock gearing ,,the smaller rear wheel puts the oem 17/42 gearing spot on the money for snappy acceleration,,equivalent to you all lowering your gearing to 16/42 or 17/45 when using the 21/18 oem wheels.
6,,,you can snooker and smoke most everyone in the twisties

Here's the downside:
1,,,on some models the side-stand may be too long,,we can shorten them or provide an adjustable unit
Another solution is buying a shorter side stand say from a SM
2,,,you lose a little real dirt riding ability
3 ...it'll cost you $700-1700 depending on what you opt ie using your hubs as the basis save $599-700,,using your disc saves $$$

here's some links to:

Feed-back,,,,discussions,,,,threads,,,,photos,,,You Tube videos:

1a,,,ADVRIDER thread ''19/17 Setup Review '' from yellow pig:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281897&highlight=19%2F17

1b,,,You Tube videos:

19/17 close-ups by vasqueshd before installation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmx6XuYnXUs&feature=player_embedded

19/17 on bike by vasquezhd:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08barFPlKYs&feature=related

2,,,McMann's comments n pics using the larger 5''x17''rear rim & 160/70x17tire size different than usual 4.25x17''rim using 150/70x17 tire

''I went to a 5" rear wheel and 160 size tire for my 950A because I like the way my 625SMC handled with stock 5.0" X 17 rim & 160 rear tire. A 5" will allow 160 or 170 size tires. ''





3,,, ADVRIDER thread '' 17/19 wheel combo - what width rim?''
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431434


4,,,This is the thread discussing optimal tires for the 2.5" X 19 front & 4.25" X 17 rear is standard
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351093

and here's Pyndon's comments plus a routine ride thru his beloved English back country roads ,,,showing you what he can and you too could do on this Superlaced wheel combo:

'' my 19"/17" with Michelin Anakees fitted. An awesome tyre for all year round riding in the UK, from sunshine to pissing it down with rain, these things seen to do the job

I mean, there's not many multi-purpose bikes that are quick and handle well in the twisties, will cruise at 100mph all day long (done it ) and enjoyable offroad too. I mean feck, lock-stops while backing it into a tight turn on a 500lb bike......I love it! '' sez Pyndon





5,,, cjracer with his friends 19/17 Superlaced wheels using Bridgestone Pilots getting em gumballed during a track day...
Originally Posted by cjracer
1st track day on the 950. What a blast. This bike can do anything.




You can see here that I gumballed up the sides pretty good, but still had the nubs in the center.





PHOTOS and LINKS to PHOTOS:

..SEND IN YOUR PHOTOS AND I"LL LINK HERE!!

1,,,photos from Abyss:
https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/5883805_mYtot#365657895_MUyXL

2,,,photos from: smitty 141 :

Got them on yesterday.... Scrubbed them in today... WOW I like um... Smitty







more pics: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298332

4,,,Doug Matson's front:





once again Sakurama hits the nail on the head....
<hr style="color:#575757; background-color:#575757" size="1">

LANGNIAPPE = a lil something extra..in this case observations replies and commentary from some of my highly respected customers/inmates on this forum:

I present SAKURAMA.....


<table id="post3890080" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: 1px solid #575757; border-right: 0px"> 01-09-2007, 06:15 PM </td><td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: 1px solid #575757; border-left: 0px" align="right"> #25 </td></tr> <tr valign="top"><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px solid #575757; border-top: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" width="175"> sakurama 
on an endless build



Joined: Oct 2004
Location: NYC & PDX
Oddometer: 1,340


</td><td class="alt1" id="td_post_3890080" style="border-right: 1px solid #575757"> I've weighed in on this before but I'm bored and taking a rest from studio chores so what the heck. I've got two sets of wheels from Woody: 21x1.85 & 18x2.75 and another set 19x2.5 & 17x4 (same as the BMW GS). I have about 10,000 miles on each set in a variety of terrain. I've ridden all different tires including Scorpions and TKC80's on both wheel sets so this is a fair comparison.

Here's me and my buddy Eli at Woody's with the man himself picking up a new set of wheels for a trip to Elko:

21/18 Impressions -

These wheels are great off road. The stock ones are weak but the ones Woody built are bullet proof. The larger size tracks very well and isn't as easily deflected. It rolls over large obstacles very well. In sand it works very well but the handling is heavy and slow but with a tendency to head shake. On pavement it's vague and it's possible to lose the front if pushed to the edge. It's not so much ultimate grip but the speed with which the front will lose traction once it starts to slide. You can still ride it quickly on pavement.

19/17 Impressions -

This is frankly my preferred wheelset. The bike is a compromise being really too large to do seriously technical off road work. It's best (in my opinion) as a GS type do everything bike. Everything tends to mean pavement. The smaller wheels are much more stable. This is contrary to what you may hear from KTM but the smaller front actually eliminated the head shake I used to get - go figure. The bike transitions quicker, holds a line better in a corner and has more grip and more rubber up front to make a front end slide recoverable. This is on pavement. On dirt it's still better. Maybe ever so slightly more vervous but I like it. In sand it's pretty miserable and augers in and no amount of throttle seems to pick it up. In rock and rough stuff it's still pretty good but doesn't track nearly as well as the bigger wheels.

Overall I think the 17/19 is better in dirt than the 21/18 is on pavement. I've got 24,000 miles on my bike and now that I've done the crazy stuff with it I feel it's best for exploring the less traveled path but not so good at blazing a path. I'll keep the big wheels if I go to Baja or Alaska but otherwise I like the smaller set.

Here's a shot of Eli riding over Rollins Pass. This is a pretty difficult pass and we knew of a few GS riders who tried but couldn't do it. The big wheels are essential for these big rocks.

Personally I think the bike should come with 17/19 as standard (and so does everyone who's ridden my bike with those wheels) but the S model should come with the big wheels. It's nice to have both though.

Gregor
__________________
www.gregorhalenda.com
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My reply to Sakurama's post above..i noticed that all his great pictures have been deleted..perhaps because he uses too many pixels??? here's post #29


once again Sakurama hits the nail on the head....
<hr style="color:#575757; background-color:#575757" size="1"> there's nothing i love more than tasting and experiencing the realm of the QUALITY experience,,,,,

and to introduce another or even better yet share that QUALITY experience/domain with another is truly one of my life's great pleasures.

i refined and simplified the notions of the big Q experience after digesting Pirsigs tome...Zen and the art of mc maintenace,,,,whatever it is ,has to work/taste/etc as well as it looks,,,and look as well as it works /etc. Consistently,,,most folks arrive at similar conclusions when given the opportunity to ''experience the difference'',,,hence BYOE mcdonalds hamburgers and sleeper hotrods don't make the cut...ie the former doesn't taste as good as the pictures and the later doesn't look as good as it runs.

reading Sakurama's report is one of those big Q experiences because it is concise,,,,,has well balanced objective-subjective data,,,,combined in an aesthetically and technically rich potpouri....

he has hit the nail on the head with his comment that this bike should have been offered from the factory with the 19/17 combo akin to the BMW GS series...btw he was on track to do the SM set-up too

i assert that if i took 20 riders out and let each one try a 950 shod with the appropriate tires on the rim combinations below and have them run a test course that runs the gamut of single track,,forest trails,,hard pack dirt roads,,curvy canyon roads,,,freeways,,and a road race course that at days end they would agree with Sakurama's analysis.

the bell curve would have the dirt riders and canyon carvers on the outside fringes and the majority of the riders would unanimously agree that the #3 19/17 combo did more things great and that the #4 SM and #2 dirt really worked better in their respective riding terrain than the others

that leaves me wondering what KTM had in mind, ,,,i think they are selling an image to us wannabee Paris -Dakar ,,world travelling adventure dreamers....it's an optical illusion thing,,,the 21'' front wheel plays to the dirt bike element....

at days end,,,when you've taken your stock oem 950 over all the terrain and pounded as much pavement as Sakurama has....you too will more often than not find that taking your 950 over rugged mountain passes or canyon carving would have been a lot easier/and perhaps more fun on appropriately sized and shod wheels.....or maybe even save that territory for a more appropriate steed.

and then somewhere in the back of your head you'll wonder ''what am i doing taking my $15,000 500+ lb dream machine and pounding it,, my body and my pocketbook'' and admit....that that 200lb thumper sitting in the garage would be a better tool the next time ya want to cross those passes

bike #1...OEM 2.15x21 and 4.25x18 ie KTM's version/vision

bike#2...1.85x21 and 2.50x18 ie the dirt bike lovers vision

bike#3...2.50x19 and 4.25x17 ie the dual sport vision

bike #4...3.50x17 and 5.5x17 ie the SM canyon carver vision and now for the genuine Tubeless -rim crowd:
we offer the best cross-pollinated wheel around...
Aprillia CapoNord rims on billet hubs...

the Gobbler in action on MT. Palomar with his new Caponords
<hr style="color: rgb(87, 87, 87); background-color: rgb(87, 87, 87);" size="1"> one pic is worth a thousand words.....+++++








Nowwhat's set up being flogged two up...



Nowwhat's opinion:

[I put the Caponards on for 100% street use to haul the wife around...would never dream of taking them off road....on the street they are extremely confidence inspiring....It was only a few minutes of riding before my boots were scraping the ground in the turns.... ]quote

more info on this set-up here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284243&page=2

TECH INFO:

1,,,Tire fitment chart.....just click on these words to see what rims and tires work together...REMEMBER!!!,,the narrower your rim the less likely it will bend in the rough stuff...optimizing tire and rim combinations still have to fall within the tire manufacturers standards,,hence me offering this chart to get ya in the ballpark
http://www.woodyswheelworks.com/ktm.shtml

2,,,speedometer/odometer re-calibration link
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23117373&postcount=24


Gadget Boy's HOT-SET-UP to search AdvRider via Google. It yields quick and copious results! Check it out here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346422


Pass the word,,and chip in!!! As we all post in this thread i'll try to move the contributions into the above categories via links and cut n pasting.

hope this idea flies and works for you all...There's so much valuable info in this forum,,,this should get the best of it out of past threads n posts,,,it'll save many from endless searching and others including myself from saying the same thing over and over,,,Pssst,,me???,,,i'd rather be riding
woody

hey guys,,,help me add your FAQs to this thread..
thanks ,,woody

I have a question about wheels for an 08 530 exc.

I am looking for a second set of wheels to keep more street oriented rubber mounted on. Something like the tires the come on the adventure.

I am assuming I don't want to go to supermoto wheels because I don't want to have to change brake mounting points, gearing etc. I just want to be able to easily swap wheels so that if I am going to spend the day on the road (dirt or paved) I can have a better ride than I would with the normal non-DOT knobbies.

So, what is the best rim/hub combo for a reasonable price and do I need a cush hub?

the familiar mantra goes like this--
1..2.50x19'' front
2..4.25x17 rear
3..cush drive
simple as that,,,cush drive hub and sprocket assy swap with your existing rear hub,,maximum choice of dual sport tires available ,,,ie same size as all the BMW dual sports...check my web site below for prices,,i'm in germany,,i'm in germany,,,my troops will help you for sure,,, woody

How about a 19/17 set for a 950 Supermoto?

5.0 on the rear? 2.5 on the front? I wanna blast some dirt roads!!

been there n done that one many times..whatever you want
woody

Well...cool! What are we talking here? What's needed? I'm assuming an ADV sprocket carrier and hub for the rear, but what about the front hub and rotors?

we have everything ,,call the shop ask for Zach he'll take good care of you,,i'm in germany trying to get the bottom of the Behr rim dilemna..
auf wiedersehen
woody

PS...OBTW scroll down to the first post ..i just added a few pics of Pyndon on his scoot with this combo

Does anything change with the abs on the 990's with the change in wheel size? I guess as long as the abs ring stays the same, the brakes function the same?

so far there have been no anomalies reported,,,there's a post from sakurama detailing switching your speedo settings..

i have personally test driven all models and brands and not found the ABS to not kick in...the jury is still out regarding some new BMW integrated braking system

woody

Hi Woody,
Not sure if i am being a plonker , but how do you run a 19/17 set up on spoked wheels with tubless tyres ???

Spoke with my local dealer The KTM Centre in the UK and KTM are against all this due to probs with the Tube / Tyre prob , i have tried and failed to find an answer on your main thread so sorry IF its an obvious answer

SPG

950 Adv

well there are three basic genres of tubeless wheels....

A,,cast/forged/ alloy wheels with machined surfaces

B,,,genuine tubeless rims made of steel or alloy that are void of any item that needs sealing they would fall into several sub-categories:

1,,,steel rims on your car BWOE

2,,,wire wheels with steel/alloy rims that have a place for nipples or spokes to attach to hub ie Moto-guzzi/BMW,Aprilia Caponord use this X-laced spoke technology

3,,,other types use a ''sealed rim with a flange that is part of the extrusion,,and attach it to the hub via spokes ala Gas-Gas trials bikes or riveted metal plate spokes like the old Honda Comstar wheels

C,,, all other wire spoke wheels that try to be sealed for tubeless by a variety of technologies,,ie liquid sealants of all types,,ie:silicone/plumbers goop/ Seal All etc,,,,or special taping systems,,or
special nipple/o-ring systems ,,,,or the new Tubliss System using bicycle tires and tubes to hold the
tire against the bead and seal off the area where the nipples come through the rim

here's another thread with more info on this topic
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284243

woody

PS,,the main concern is that you use rims/wheels that were designed and speced for tubeless application in conjunction with a tire that was designed for tubeless application,,our current tubeless technology is the result of a collaborative effort between the wheel and tire manufacturers. it requires tight specs on both their parts

I just moved my 19/17 set-up from my 950 ADV to my 950 SE.

All I had to do was remove the right side disk brake and use the EOM SE spacers and I was good to go.

The set up is wicked fun!

Yellow Pig,,thanks for the awesome photos,,now go bash that thing up independence pass again and provide some detailed feedback like ya did on your first test ride with that combo on your first 950!......or were these pics taken on the pass???

OBTW,,,funny i was up Independence pass just 36 hours ago,,,had my wife's BMW325i,,,,honest injun ,,i was thinking of you as i let the cob-webbs out of the ol brain and let her rip,,,,WHAT a HOOT,,,Fahrvergnugen...
i sure like it when the car responds so well you think it is an extension of your body and mind,,,,,this yellow print is for you and the aspens

This was just a quick mid-week romp up Mt Evans, had to sneak a ride in before the snow flew.

Once the Conti Trail Attacks, which by the way are awesome and stick really well even in cold conditions, are done I plan on giving the Michelin Pilot Road-2s a shot.

The wheels seem to work better on the SE than on the ADV. Not sure why. Most likely it's the better suspension, more aggressive riding position and the lighter weight up front. The bike seems more flick-able.

I love how the bike feels and handles. It's eve better than my old DRZ400 Super Moto w/ 17 all around.

PS: Remember it's Aprilia CapoNord, not Caponard, which in Italian means North Cape, the most norther point in Europe. For the Europeans it's the equivalent of Ushuaia, the souther tip of the American continent.

I wish I had silver rims...



Next time I'm going with CapoNord (thanks Y.P.!!) rims, too. Mine were supposed to be sealed...it worked for a while but there are tubes in both ends now. I was tired of the slow leaks.

I don't think the spoke sealing is the problem...I think the rims are the problem. I don't think the beads seal right.
Also...Woody, I spoke earlier (in the other thread) about my front wheel needing truing...turns out it's fine, it was an out of round tire. That'll do it!

i'm not surprized,,,this scenario has played out more often than not,,,i'm confident that the durability of the truing /Superlacing process has withstood the test of time as well as pounding you guys give them,,w

PS,,if i find a buyer for your wheels ,,i'll let you know,,,,OBTW,,,i too agree,,,silver would look better IMHO,,woody

Hi Woody,
I'm interested in a 19/17 set for my 06 625 SMC. Stock hubs, Excell rims, more for dual sport than street. What would you suggest, and a rough idea on cost, shipped to Calgary, AB? Will I have interference problems with the spokes and the calipher, with the stock rotor?

Thanks,
Doug

I got Silver and want Black!

So what tires are available for the 19/17 set-up?

So far I've found:

1- Conti Trail attack
2- Michelin Pilot Roads
3- Conti road Attack

Which are deemed the stickies?