the DR650 thread

You might want to stay with the 96 and up,the older ones are about 50lbs heavier and are a solid step backwards. Even a 96 and up is 80's technology for the most part.
Lots of aftermarket stuff for 96 and newer,not so much for the old ones.

You can also follow Suzuki's instructions for setting chain slack at rest,it works great. Certain amount of slack when sitting on the sidestand and its done.
If theres tight spots like the OEM chain had on mine it will be noticeable going down the road.
Too tight is way worse then slightly loose on chains,its why guys rip the upper roller off the frame.

Does anyone know if the center stand for a dr pre 96 (old model) fits in a 96 dr650 (new model).

Those RSE's are pretty cool and maybe worth having.

Does the bog happen anywhere above idle up to 1/8 opening? Does the problem improve or get worse when warmed up?

I would install an adjustable needle instead of shimming a non-adjustable one. I would not drill the slide.

I would try the non-USA adjustable needle first.

You can raise the needle by one clip position to start, but I wouldn't worry about that too much, as the engine will tell you what clip position it wants when it comes time to tune 1/4 opening.

I would try the non-USA DR needle first.

See http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528038.

I think it's a bad idea.

It drastically accelerates slide guide, emulsion tube slide and jet needle wear, while making less horsepower at every opening on the KTM I tried it on.

Spring rate and preload controls the average height the slide rises to for a given intersection of throttle position and rpm. The lift hole area controls how damped the slide movement is, i.e. how much it oscillates.

It likely won't need anything too radically different than what it needs now, but the engine will tell you.

Regards,

Derek

I wouldn't do it unless I knew that the compression, timing, exhaust flow and/or quality of fuel supported higher cylinder pressures without the danger of detonation. It may take some work to get jetted properly.

Regards,

Derek

This isn't the case with the DR. An open airbox and free flowing exhaust are good for about a 5-6 HP increase. That's very significant on a bike that only makes 34 HP at the tire in stock form.

Hundreds of DR riders have opened the air box with no hint of detonation ... or any other problems. DR motors losing compression is very rare. Unless the top end has been fooled with ... timing will not be off.

The DR650 runs perfectly on even the lowest Octane Mexican fuel. (roughly 84 Octane) No pinging ... even in 100F temps. I'm running stock exhaust but ran an FMF Q2 for the first 5000 miles ... no problems at all with open air box regards pinging, over heating or poor running.

I followed the Jesse tuning guide to start, once the DJ needle was installed, jetting was mere child's play... my bike runs on the lean side but not dangerously so. Makes better power than a stock bike (maybe one or two HP more), still gets around 50 MPG.

A quick search reveals http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=67419, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...6#post18052596, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...3#post16094853, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...g#post15781952, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=15252, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...n#post20447527, and http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...n#post20440712

I didn't say anything about losing compression.

I was referring to the ignition timing. I was also not saying that it might be off. What I was trying to get at is that it could be advanced enough in stock form that the increase in cylinder pressures resultant from opening up the intake could lead to detonation. Sorry for not having been clearer...

That may in fact be true, but realize that once you are able to hear it, it's pretty severe.

The FMF would have increased detonation resistance over stock.

Do you have dyno charts and EGA data to share with us?

Regards,

Derek

When I go from a 15t to a 16t, it raises my comfortable cruising about 8 mph; from 67-8 to 75. GPS

I'm guessing 14t to 15t will be about the same, from whatever speed you're willing to run the 14t.

With a 42t rear, 14 to 15t is about a 300rpm drop.

Those links don't reveal specifics regards mods to individual bikes. Did they all have Open Air Boxes? And what jetting did they have? State of tune/condition of the bikes? In most cases pinging results from the owner either lugging the bike ... or doing a poor job of tuning/jetting/mods. Also, in some cases the owners are literally "hearing things" ... and don't really know what Pinging, Detonation sounds like. A flopping chain can fool a lot of riders.

Fair enough. But are you saying stock compression is too high to handle the open air box mod? And timing may be too advanced to handle it? If that was the case then, IMHO, we'd have many more reports of severe detonation from guys who'd opened up the Air Box.

The fact is most guys wouldn't know pinging from chain clatter .... but yes, once you hear it ... you've got problems. Do you believe my bike would have made it to 50,000 miles? ... mostly all on regular gas ... if severe detonation, or even MINOR detonation existed I would think my piston would be toast ... and bits of Alu would have shown up on my plugs before that.
Lots can be revealed from spark plugs.
I have no Dyno Charts. But maybe you can share with us any Dyno Charts you've done ... in your shop .... on customer bikes?

Try back-blowing your spark arrestor. If it's not done for a long time, carbon deposits build up and come out like light blue oil smoke, but with a funny (not oil) odor.

There is a bolt/plug on the stock muffler,undo it for a few.

It's 72 degrees and Sunny here is Sacramento right now. I should be riding not stuck here at work, eating lunch and reading about jetting and pre-detonation

I have 41,000 + plus miles on my 2006 DR and with most of those miles with an missing side cover. The jetting is slightly rich by my reckoning (plug color) and the bike runs great 45 to 50 mpg. Closer to 45 in winter, 50 in summer - darn alcohol contaminated fuel.

I do run premium fuel, because after 2 or so tanks of regular fuel my bike seems to "cut out" like its running out of gas, when cruising at 50 MPH of so. Does not do that under full throttle or at lower speeds

Problem goes away as soon as I switch back to premium - I think I has to do with the alcohol in the the fuel. Maybe lean at 1/2 throttle?

Hello DR650'ers. I don't have one yet, but I am thinking about buying a used one I found for sale. I was wondering if someone could give me an idea on how much power they have, with a TM40 Mikuni and GSXR exhaust? I don't mean numbers, but by the seatofyourpants dyno. Also how well do they run at very low speeds through sticky stuff?

Previously, you said, "Hundreds of DR riders have opened the air box with no hint of detonation ... or any other problems.". Now you are asking about state of tune. They either had opened airboxes or not. If so, then the pinging could have been brought on by the opened airbox. If not, then the situation would be worse once the airbox was opened up.

I'm not sure how you can argue that hundreds of DR riders are astute enough to know for a fact that their engine is not suffering from detonation, while simultaneously being capable of hearing things and not really knowing what pinging and detonation sound like.

I said no such thing. I said you want to be sure that it is not.

Again, I'm saying that you want to be sure that it is not.

We have at least seven reports in the links. It can be quite harmful well before it is audible, and it is possible for it to happen without being aware that it has.

One of the first things that happens is that the severe pressure rises on top of the piston cause the oil film between the wrist pin and its bores to fail, leading to galling. Another is that the pressure waves punch through the vapor barrier, leaving the oil film on the cylinder wall unprotected from normal combustion (much less uncontrolled combustion), causing it to burn off. The severe pressure rises present during detonation simultaneously push the rings into the cylinder wall much harder than normally, which cause cylinder wall and ring scuffing. Your bike could have made it 50,000 miles with detonation. The piston does not have to be destroyed as a result, nor do bits of aluminum have to appear on the spark plug.

See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/search. Select "graphs" from the category drop down. Select a make model and year, and/or key words.

Regards,

Derek

mine got knocked off. probably by a rock coming off the Kenda TrakMasterII. It is an epoxy patch now.

that's probably what it is. I hadn't even thought of that. That's why I hang around here.

maybe I'll put the SuperTrapp back on and see if it still happens.

An RSE is exactly what I am looking at, a '93 RSEU to be more exact. I'm on a budget and it looks perfect for my needs (mostly asphalt, a tiny little offroad). Also, since I am mostly going asphalt, then the 50lbs might not be so bad for me, and the fairing might come in useful. Also, I understand the pre96 models have a little more torque, which may be useful for around town.
What about the mechanical differences? People talk about the chain counterbalancing system being terrible, I have no idea or experience.
Thanks for the answer, hope to get a little more insight from you guys.
Thanks, Chris

I don't know if you can get a KLR 650 where you are, but here in the U.S., it would be a better choice. They were the same for 20 years leading up to 2008 when the changed the body. It's electric start and I believe the Suzuki is kick start. It looks a lot like a KLR at first glance too. Accessories are much more available for the KAW. Maybe in Europe the RSE was more widely available.

Ask here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61568

These guys will know a lot more about the engine at least.

The 1996 and newer DR650 is easier to get parts and accessories for also. Unless you are determined to have that bike, you will likely be better off with a new generation DR or a KLR.