With the Klim stuff, I would be very careful buying it without trying it on first. Sounds like you do not have a choice. So be prepared to send it back for a different size. My experience is that the sizing of the Klim stuff is very different to anything else. Good luck!
I wear a an American size 46 jacket and size 36 pant. The Badlands XL jacket fits me fine with a little room for a layer under. I have the Dakar pants in a 36 and they are a little loose but I don't think I'd want to go down a size, and I just ordered a size 36 Badlands pant last week.
Another good waterproof report on the Badlands gear from a real world ride . . . two hours of commuting in rain yesterday from a steady rain with gusting winds in the morning to a heavy downpour with gusting winds on the return trip. I rode a combination of back roads, highway and street riding. 60% of the time riding @ 90kmph on the highway. No leaks! Stayed bone dry. I am both impressed and pleased with the water repellancy of this fabric as advertised. Previous separate-layer gear would be sopping wet on the outside and weigh twice as much as the Gortex Pro-Shell does when wet. Water beaded up on the suit everywhere except the bottom of the pants (as one would expect) through the entire ride. Even still, neither the pants nor jacket seemed to weigh more than they did dry and a quick shake shed most of the beaded water. The suit is brand new, so I don't expect the fabric to stay quite as water-repellant with time and wear, but I'll be sure to apply spray a quality DWR product on it regularly to keep it this way as much as possible. DWR on a separate-layer jacket didn't seem to make any difference, but with the bonded-layer Pro-Shell, I believe it will. Some pockets did have moisture in them so be aware of that, (although my wallet was unprotected in my pant cargo pocket and stayed dry). I'd say carry some spare ziplocks in the back pouch or a pocket if keeping stuff that can't get wet in your pockets is important to you. It would be nice if the pockets were waterproof too, but I'll settle for me staying dry inside the gear with the option of good venting and just make due with other measures to keep non-water resistant items better protected in the pockets during inclement weather. One note on the arm straps . . . I can see how they could pull the zipper apart because they are a bit on the short side and hard to keep loose with a full heated liner under the jacket. They need to be about an inch or two longer. I've adjusted them as loose as I can and they sometimes come apart because I have to fold them over the plastic loop where the hook velcro is and then it's barely touching the loop side of the velcro to stay in place. I think I'm going to make some "extensions" for them; just a short length of webbing with appropriate velcro on it so they can be quite loose when riding in the winter, but removeable for the summer. Friday is looking like a monsoon day in the entire region . . . calling for 50+ mm of rain . . . might take the day off work to go for a real full-day test ride up-Island. Never thought I'd ever see the day that I'd be looking forward to rain!
I wear a Euro 54 and the Klim large is snug. XL is too loose. I don't know if this helps or not but I agree that ordering without trying it on is a risk.
I put the things that really need to stay dry in the inside pockets. wallet and cell phone mostly. passport in the hidden pocket in the back of the jacket and everything that should be dry, is totally dry.
You bet. I'm confident without even trying it that the venting will be great as it's very similar to the venting on my previous Olympia AST jacket and that was the best feature of the AST. I was even more impressed with the waterproofness of the Klim Badlands on the way home tonight on the completely unfaired and naked DR350. You can't be more exposed to the elements than on a bike like that. It was a heavy downpour with large raindrops most of the 40 minute ride into a very strong headwind going 90 kph. At times the rain was hitting me so hard that I could feel a light sting on my skin right through the jacket, my 3-layer Gerbing heated full-liner and a cotton long sleeve turtleneck; mostly could feel it on the arms but even on my body at times. But not a drop of water got inside! Very impressive. Definitely booking Friday off to give it a full day's riding in the rain to simulate an extreme inclement weather touring situation if the weather forecast holds true. That will be the real test! . . . BRING IT ON! :dog
II tried on the Badlands today and it's impressive but it still seems like it would be too hot for slow speed DS summer rides. I'd prefer to use a pressure suit with whatever layers and a goretex jacket shell so I can peel back layers and stash them. You can't stash a badlands and even if you could, you'd be left without armor. Plus the Badlands vents are small in the front of the jacket (where most needed IMHO) , big at the pits and back. All the other Klim jackets without ce pads are poorly vented IMO, making them a bad choice for hot summer rides. Does anyone know of a great wp outer layer (no liner) with great ventilation? Does anyone know of a pressure suit with d3o pads?
Too much venting is a bad thing in hot weather. http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/ironbutt_1002_62-66_Hot.pdf
My Olympia AST had similar venting to the Badlands and it was great. Full arm vents, two small front pocket vents and two large back vents. Based on my experience with that jacket, I think the Badlands will be even better with the fold back opening at the top of the front zip and the large pit/side vents. I just leave the front zip exposed by leaving the flaps open and maybe partially unzipping from the bottom as well to get some extra air flow. Add a dampened LD Comfort long sleeve tee and you'll be doing vents up to stay warm! But yes, there are times when it's too hot for a full jacket and then it's time for the pressure suit and jersey. Typically though, rain isn't in the forecast and I don't bother carrying anything. But if I'm touring and away from home with the possibility of rain, the Badlands is supposed to be able to go over a pressure suit with the pads removed, or, like you I'd just take a waterproof shell. I was able to get the AST over a pressure suit and would just fold it up and strap it down if it got that hot. With the emergency only waterproof shell, I don't care so much about venting with those because I'd only be wearing it in the rain and venting is not a consideration. As soon as the rain stops, I'd be pulling it back off again. As far as a waterproof shell with pads . . . your basically describing what the Badlands is. If you look at the inside the "liner" is just there to hold the pads and there are gaps around where the kidney belt is (another great feature by the way) that there is no lining at all. Add to that the abrasion protection of the shell material itself and you can't really beat that for an all-purpose system. I suggest taking a pressure suit to the store if you can and asking them to remove all the padding in the jacket and try it on for size. I'm going to need to shed some more pounds before that will work for me, but I'm sure it will.
I concur. Interesting and well written. I have a bit of experience with the LD Comfort stuff in a hot climate and I have to say, it really works. It was east Oregon and it was stinking hot. I only had the LD t-shirt on and wetted it thoroughly. Then opened all my vents and left the jacket zipper flap open with it unzipped a bit on the bottom and the collar open on the top. Within a few miles, I started closing vents and zips because I was too cold! What I've found with wetting the LD material is to only do it sparingly around the neck and where the vents are exposed. If you wet the entire garment, the water wicks downward and soaks the top of your pants and starts to feel a bit too damp all over. But being strategic where you wet the garment prevents some of that and still keeps you cool. I keep a small trigger spray bottle of water close at hand and just spray the exposed areas of the garment through vents and such and that works fine. When it dries out, only takes a minute to re-wet.
we wet our LDComfort to the point of soaking wet in hot weather...and yes, open vents on the arms or in that area...close all other vents and you can stay coolish. We have a cooling vest now for both of us for next year....
I've spent a lot of time over the years learning, or wasting time, on advrider. Usually a question has been answered a dozen times before I see it so I rarely post. This thread is already pretty long, but since it was a great help to me, I'll throw my opinion in as well. Some background... I've used an Olympia Bushwacker jacket for the last five or six years for everything from commuting to a month long trip around the country. It's a very versatile jacket and one that I really like and will continue to use in the hottest weather. The main thing I don't like is having to use an inner rain liner. Oh, my main rides are an ST13000 and a DR650. I got the Badlands for the waterproofness and the great protection I read about. No, I didn't like paying the price, but I generally don't skimp on safety gear. Also, I expect a quality garment to last longer than a cheap one. Since it is now the cold season, having more wind resistant gear also convinced me to pull the trigger. This should be considered more an initial review than a full-fledged one. I've commuted in it about four days, 80 miles roundtrip, in temps from 60F to 35F at night. Yesterday, I rode about 325 miles and the temp was between 45 and 65F. Pros... The jacket seems very well made. I like the weight, it seems very heavy duty. I haven't used it in rain yet, but I have high expectations. It blocks the wind very well compared to my Bushwacker, but I haven't used it in truly cold weather yet. The kidney belt is awesome! It gives me a secure feeling that the jacket will not go anywhere in a get-off. It helps keep my kidneys warmer and keeps wind from blowing up the back of the jacket. It helps carry the weight of the jacket. It will also allow better air circulation in the summer. For me, an integrated belt is absolutely the best feature of this jacket. Why didn't someone do this sooner? The inner sleeve cuffs... I think they are a positive, at least for colder weather. It's a little more of a pain to put on, but they do a good job of sealing out the wind. The sleeve length seems slightly long off the bike, but they are perfect while riding. Don't have to fiddle around making sure everything is just right to keep the wind out of the glove/jacket junction. Cons... Sleeves are tight unless there is nothing underneath. I think it's a pretty safe bet that consumers want to use a $900 jacket as much as possible, not just when the weather is perfect, and that means using some type of liner. With a liner underneath, my sleeves are pretty snug and I'm no Popeye. In fact, I wonder if the sizing was based on a pro cyclist with spaghetti arms. The outside sleeve straps could be longer as well to allow as much room as possible. Surprisingly, the d30 armor is more of a con than a pro for me. Why? I have issues with the armor in two of the three locations. In the arms, it may be part of the reason that the sleeves are tight. The elbow pads seem pretty thick although they seem to have pretty good coverage. I am going to try some other armor I have around to see if something thinner allows more room in the forearms. Shoulders, I didn't really notice this at first, but they are really small. Yesterday after making some adjustment to one of my elbow pads, I reached up to make sure the shoulder pads were in the proper position. Because of their size, I'm less than impressed with the protection offered. If I adjust it to where I think they should be, either the front or the back of my shoulder is exposed. When the front is covered, the back side is exposed and vice versa. Also, the pocket they sit in doesn't really have any room for adjustment. I'm not a tinkerer, usually I leave things like they were meant to be, but I thought, maybe I'll have to put some different armor in the shoulder as well. Guess what? The shoulder pocket fits precisely around the armor so there isn't room for anything bigger. Major bummer. In my opinion, the shoulder armor is a major oversight in the design of a very nice jacket. I mountain bike and rode dirt bikes a lot when I was younger and I've learned the hard way that hitting the ground is oftentimes a pretty violent event. You don't know if you are going to hit the front of your shoulder, the rear, or right on the outside, therefore armor generally covers the entire area. Also the cup shape helps keep it in position. As designed, I don't have much confidence that the pad will be in the right place at the right time. The best armor in the world isn't much good if it only covers part of the area. Huge miss... Last, the armor does stiffen up when cold. Not the end of the world, but I wonder if it still maintains it's protective qualities or if it becomes brittle. I've seen the demos at normal temperature, but not when cold. The back armor is very good size and I have absolutely no issues with it. I hope this doesn't sound too negative, but I want to be as honest as possible. I haven't given up on this jacket, but I am pretty disappointed with the shoulder situation. I will continue to use it to get a better idea of how it works for me. Oh, just remembered another reason I don't post much. It takes a long darn time to be thorough. Hope it helps someone else.
we have D3o armour...last summer with the older version back protector...I mean summer 2011 when we were up in Alaska...it was cold...one day Cheryl took her armour out to wash her Traverse jacket and the D3o back pad was severed in half. Now, we did at times put out jackets into our top box and side cases...but in this case the temps were low and it did snap. My feeling is the D3o feels like a bricks if I leave my jacket in the garage with low temps. I bet if i really wanted to I could crack the armour before it has a chance to warm up to my body. Now...I just keep my gear in the house from this point until the the mornings start to warm up again. I think that the makers of this armour may have over looked its vulnerable points when cold.
I think it's good to point out the weaknesses in otherwise very well made and designed gear, but you're balancing it with some positive comments too and that's good. This site has been a great help to me too and this thread in particular for helping me decide to go with the Badlands despite some shortcomings. But I feel the benefits outweight those shortcomings and some can be overcome without altering the jacket or pants. I agree with you on the small size of some of the pads. They need to address this. The knee pads in the pants are similar, but at least the pockets are a llittle bit bigger, so you might be able to get something else in there. I have some BMW riding jeans that are close to their end of life after 3 years of almost daily use, and they have HUGE d30 knee pads in them that are still in great shape. (see photo below) They cover the inside and outside of the knee, right up over the top and down almost the full length of the shin. I'm going to suggest to Klim that they model their next Badlands upgrade after these. But unfortunately, they're too big for the pockets in the Badlands pants to swap them directly over. When the BMW pants are finally done, I'm considering trimming the BMW pads down just enough to fit the Badlands pockets and they'd still be almost twice the size of the knee pads that come with the Badlands. Pad size and coverage definitely needs to be addressed in the next upgrade. But at least with the pants you can use strap-on knee guards instead as an option. Knee Pads: Badlands (left) - - - BMW (right) As for the potential of the d30 pads failing in cold temps that you and soph9 mention, you might be on to something that could be a weakness in that technology. I'm not usually in that cold of a climate, but it's certainly something to keep in mind when trying to get the pads in and out in cold climes. I would be concerned for the their strength in a fall, but I'm sure even in the coldest weather, they'd stay pretty flexible after being against your body for a short time while wearing it. I keep my stuff indoors for that reason too, and even in a warming closet sometimes. I have one closet right beside my home heating system that feels like a mild sauna during half the year and I use it as my "drying" closet for hanging wet gear. Very handy!
I live right by you...this time of year with temps anywhere from 5 C to below 0 is cold enough to make the armour feel like rocks. It does like you said warm up and become more pliable once you have you gear on but if you ever wanted to try ...take the D3o when cold, especially the back protector and crack it over your knee I bet it would break.
Ahhh . . . no thanks! :huh . . . I'll take you're word for it. I wear a Gerbings full heated liner at this time of year and one of the issues is the back is too warm due to the backpad acting as an insulator . . . so I'm fairly sure it will be pliable when I need it to be.
this is the best time of year to ride...hardly any other bikers on the road and yeah with heated gear I warm up faster on the bike than I do my car
