Yooperbikemike's 2013 MotoGP Thread

Indy (and the State of Indiana) stepped up to the plate and is throwing money at the problems with the track (Track is currently being restructured/surfaced). Laguna wasn't a moneymaker for Dorna and never would be.

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Borrowing Turder's post from the Aragon thread ...

... I dug up some more context from the MotoGP site's results archive.

One stat at least as frightening for Ducati is this one:

2010 Aragon 23 laps Hayden/Ducati 3rd in 42m 26s
2013 Aragon 23 laps Hayden/Ducati 9th in 42m 57s


What of the outright pace at the front?

2010. Aragon. 23 laps. Stoner/Ducati 1st in 42m 17s
2013. Aragon 23 laps Marquez/Honda 1st in 42m 03s


So the winner dropped 14s since 2010 but Hayden gained 31s.

(BTW the archive quotes 42:17 for the Stoner win in 2010, not the 42:13 Moody has.)


How about some other big players? Unfortunately we cannot compare Pedrosa's race times. But:

2010. Aragon. 23 laps. Lorenzo/Yamaha 4th in 42m 26s
2013. Aragon 23 laps Lorenzo/Yamaha 2nd in 42m 05s

Okay, so Lorenzo dropped 21s since 2010.

What about his team-mate on both occasions, Rossi on the other Yamaha?

2010. Aragon. 23 laps. Rossi/Yamaha 6th in 42m 44s
2013. Aragon 23 laps Rossi/Yamaha 3rd in 42m 16s


Are we seeing a trend here?

We can't compare Pedrosa's times but we can look at the leading Honda's times on each occasion, and given that Pedrosa had looked competitive with both Lorenzo and Marquez when he crashed due to machine malfunction we can guess he'd have been close to Marquez at the end. So:

2010. Aragon. 23 laps. Pedrosa/Honda 2nd in 42m 22s
2013. Aragon 23 laps Marquez/Honda 1st in 42m 03s


So, the factory Hondas and Yamahas have dropped 20 seconds from their race times since 2010, while the Ducatis have added at 20 seconds to theirs.


For completeness, let's look at Dovizioso. In 2010 he crashed on the last lap while trying to overtake Spies for fifth. So we can guess that if he'd been less ambitious, he'd have finished right next to Spies. Assigning Dovi Spies's time, we have:

2010. Aragon. 23 laps. Dovizioso/Honda 6th in 42m 30s*
2013. Aragon 23 laps Dovizioso/Ducati 8th in 42m 44s

* speculative.

A final observation: in 2010, Hayden (Duc) overtook Lorenzo (Yam) on the last lap for third. That's why I've posted identical times for those two, rounded. To three decimals, Hayden was 0.084s faster.

Not buying this argument. Statistics show whether a track is dangerous and Laguna doesn't produce near the injuries of other GP tracks. When was the last time you saw a MotoGP rider hit a wall at Laguna? Why is it safe enough for WSBK by not MotoGP?

Laguna is a race track
Indy is .........a oval with a f1 course inside
been to both for the GP
Laguna wins every time hands down

This. COTA also has a healthy public subsidy. We should be asking whether driving costs up to wring maximum dollars from fans, tracks and teams is good for the sport. Who benefits?

One caveat: Hayden had a couple off-track excursions this year, so his time is not an accurate representation of his performance level. Still, the trend is obvious.

^^^^^^^
and who goes to Indiana for vacation
Highway 1 on the coast is a must see/ride be there,, the only thing I want to see at Indy is the Mile but still not enough to make me go.

We fly in from western Canada for 3 or 4 days, go to the Mile and the Endurocross and all the GP practices! No time for sightseeing and not much else to see so don't stay longer. Except that night we couldn't get a cab for 2 hrs after the Mile. The cab driver that finally stopped laughed like hell at us.

*and if you don't see The Mile, you are missing out brother.

Rossi, in his last year on the Yamaha (the first time) exiting turn 6 headed up the hill. It was minor, but he absolutely got to and hit the wall. This was in a practice session, not the race.

French Moto-rag Moto Journal is tweeting yet another Ben Spies rumor, this one that he will be Suzuki's test rider in 2014 and race rider in 2015.

I think that is the best possible outcome for Ben.

No amount of money could fix the 'problems' with that track.

So how does Dorna make money from a particular track? I thought they just charged a fee. Do they get a percentage of ticket sales?

I believe they charge a fee. When I emailed Laguna frustrated over the lack of Moto2/3 they said they couldn't afford to bring the two out. I would say that implies they're paying for MotoGP

Crutchlow calls for greater engine performance :eek1

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Crutchlow+calls+for+greater+engine+performance

What the story should: I can't believe Yamaha isn't giving me better engine management systems, even though I'm leaving to a bike that is even slower than mine (currently).

Dorna charges a fee to bring in their "show." Tracks make money by selling ticket packages, vendor space and sponsorships. The track (or promoter renting the track) takes the risk, not Dorna. Laguna Seca management states it costs about nine million dollars to put on the MotoGP race. http://www.montereyherald.com/news/ci_24207739/motogp-not-returning-laguna-seca-2014

Other series, like NASCAR sometimes share TV revenue with the tracks but I don't believe that is the model for MotoGP or any form of motorcycle racing.

My experience with IMS and Speedway police. I've been to the Indy 500 twice with my dad in the 70's. Good memories. I've been to every Indy Moto GP's (first 2, ALL 4 days), BUT now I only go to Qualifying (Saturday). Leaving the venue is a pain in the ass. I know Laguna can be the same way, BUT there's not 3 lane roads accessing it either. The Speedway police make you leave the venure to the east (3 lanes to the east, 3 lanes to the west), then north on a 1 lane road. Along this route, you see tens of police units sitting there, collecting overtime (I suspect) and doing nothing. Now the first 2 years I had hotel rooms to the west and to the south. Both times I had to ride/dog paddle my bike 4 miles out of my way. Took about 30 minutes in the rain (year 1) and about 40+ minutes in scorching (90 plus degrees) heat the next. Now if traffic control was better (letting traffic exit either direction on Crawfordsville Road) and ACTUALLY make the tens of police officers WORK in the conditions (rain or heat) they make people endure, I'd be back on race day. I think they are quite full of themselves though and that will never happen. I have not been to a race day since 2010.

Don't leave the instant the checkers are waved and you won't have a problem.

:eek1
Brutal.

I'm just a little confused about yooperbikemike's statement that Laguna wasn't a money maker for Dorna. I could suppose that by not bringing Moto2 and Moto3 that Laguna paid a smaller fee. I was also under the impression that Dorna wouldn't allow Moto2 and Moto3 at Laguna because the garages were inadequate. If Dorna is requiring SCRAMP to run Moto2 and Moto3 and have the garages to support it then I can see where SCRAMP would want to cancel next year. I suppose they'd need to weigh the benefits of building the garages and the potential increased ticket sales against the cost.

I met with Bob Bahre a few years ago when he was exploring the sale of Loudon. I worked for an investment bank at the time. As I recall, the track netted about $20 million per year from their two Cup dates. I think he said the track got 20% of the TV money for each event. I believe the drivers and teams got a healthy slice of it too. The track kept 100% of the gate and provided the drivers their purse money.

As a side bar, the numbers tossed around were about $200 million for the facility. Since the two cup dates provided almost all of the track revenue/profits and the France family decided who got what dates, I complained to Bahre that he was at great risk. That the France organization could pull his dates and award them to one of the tracks in their International Speedway company.

He said he wasn't worried about that. That they had been doing business for a long time.

Of course, he eventually sold it to Bruton Smith for $300 million.