The All New LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

Then why not go for 190hp? If you 'need' 130hp, you'll certainly 'need' 190hp. Then 200hp. . . .

On an adv bike. . .

Then why do those people who like sit-up sport-tourer bikes don't simply buy sit-up sport-tourer bikes? Why buy a GS and then tell everyone "I just use it as a tourer?"

A GS is a sit-up sport touring bike. It just happens to also be all-roads or no-roads capable. The question is whether introducing water cooling and adding a pile of horses nudges its performance envelope significantly away from the rough and tumble, so to speak. And we seem to be um... thoroughly discussing that question. Ahem, hem, hum...

Jim..you're absolutely right...I do want one. I have my eye on a late 80s GSPD with the solo seat. I have owned 26 bikes to date. Harleys, Ducatis, Ktms, 1 BMW and many Japs. I have never owned a GS. I want an older GS to ride my local adv roads and some in-state motorcycle camping. I keep the 650 Strom for when I want to leave this f#ck%d up state and ride to where there are roads with personality (Arkansas, Colorado, Virginia, Washington State). I think an old R80 or R90 will be super dependable and I wont have to worry about being stranded. That being said, I need to know if BMW used points on the early GS or electronic.

Most BMW adv riders are really nice and approachable but theres some out there that think theyre bad asses and look down their noses at anything but another BMW. I seek those guys out and blow past them on my 65hp in the bends and in the dirt!...you know who you are.

You're one of those guys

I recently put 60k miles on a 150hp Yamaha. AND ride a 100hp XR750 wide open on a 1/2 mile oval(flat track). Try that wimp.

+1 on that

They buy the GS so they can look macho (aka Humvee crowd) and be parking lot ballerina's tip toeing around.

ps R-RT does dirt roads just fine. The old R100RT with 19 front wheel was better than the current diameter.
All R-RT or other sport tourers handle the twisties and stops better...most give much better weather protection

My hat is off to the real GS rider who uses the bike off road...but from my experience that is 1% maybe 5%

Exactly! Which IMHO is why BMW is taking the Boxer GS down the path it is going; to appeal to and compete with the street-oriented "adventure" bikes/riders that appear to be the majority of customers these days (95-99%?).

BMW has lost its way with the original concept of the big GS. Too bad. Luckily due to the numbers produced over that last 30 years the used market will be strong for guys like me who want a GS for its original mission.

- Dorian

Aren't we a lucky lot, to have time to bitch about nonsense, about who's d.ck is longer than his neighbour's,

or why BMW in it's wisdom/ stupidity does this or that.

And spending hours denigrating other makes, or BMW's terrible in-/compentent engineers re, the final drive's life span or

.......

If there were to be a tax on bitching and or behaving like 5-year olds in sandboxes on motorbike fora, some people would

be poor.....

Same could be said with the 3 series cars. They are so much bigger and laden than they were at conception. But, they turned them into the car people wanted, they sell a bazillion of them, and created the 1 series to fulfill the 3-series original mission. Could say the same for the 800GS.

A big +1. BMW is a company, not a non-profit.

g-

+1 on that also. There are still several other "GS" choises. F8, F658, G650, G650 serato, etc. And then if those are still too big, we cant forget that BMW owns Husky, and there you go. BMW has bike for pretty much anything you think you might want to do.

Wait, no trials bikes...

I bet somebody will pipe up and say you can do Trials on a 1200gs Or may be the new 1250 will have a "Trials" suspension mode!! (That would be awesome!!!)

Ryan

I haven't liked the continuing march to using higher tech and more complicated systems. I can do an oil change and valves on my 07 GSA just about anywhere, and have. I like to travel, and some trips have been long enough that performing maintenance during the trip is necessary I can appreciate that gains can be made in power and efficiency, but for me it's a balancing act with ease of self maintenance. I know BMW needs to compete, just like Porsche did when it water cooled the 911's. I've also read that such measures will be required to meet ever stricter emissions standards.

None of us can stop progress. To me there are a lot of times when progress feels like a step backwards in some ways though.

Obviously whittrated03's is the longest. He's apparently ridden a 250hp honzuki upside down on a board track using his foresk.n to wrap his tires for better traction.

Agree, Where I live it seems more and more people are discovering that fact. Watching some of the European "Adventure bike tests" I always sit there wondering WTF are they doing.

Wouldn't an ?-RT. Connie, FJR make more sense, if all you are going to do is ride on sealed back roads to pubs/coffee shops?

Been a few places riding with an RT and apart from the ring puckering moments where lack of suspension travel meets erosion rut that wasn't seen in time, it's not a problem.

Unfortunately in OZ it gets a bit hot behind all that tupperware in Summer. Maybe BMW can release a bike that has push button Tupperware ejection.

As for 130HP. Keep that for the Tourers, I think a detuned Lower down torque version would make more sense on a GS. Maybe the 130HP won't be the GS/A variant at all. They may just decide to go for some range. It's all a trick I tell ya.

I have only ridden one of them and it was definitely geared higher than my 2005 GS, which in my opinion is already geared pretty high for the dirt roads around here.

yep easy cruising on the high ways with good milage. It still has 1st and 2nd gears if you want to putter along on dirt roads or fields

I have a 2005 GS and have been waiting for the "big change". I ride 80/20 pavement/dirt and usually do at least two longer trips per year. I have had many bikes but have never wanted to get rid of the GS. Too dependable, does everything reasonably well. I was very close to getting a multistrada from Ducati because I like the brand and they perform very well on the street. I recently went on a day ride with my buddy who has a Pikes Peak Multi. We decided to take a detour home along a well traveled dirt fire road. It was technical in some sections but over all it was tame. After about a half mile I looked back and no Ducati. I turned around and it had buried itself in some gravel up to its gearbox. It took some very light feathering of the clutch to get it out. He was in "enduro" mode. So no Ducati for me.

I saw the new Triumph Explorer at the moto show in December and was not impressed. You sit "in" it. Very high tank in front of you. The fit and finish was all plastic and it felt like a giant scooter/moped. One thing I like to tell my friends with Multistradas is that I can kick my bike down a hill, pick it up, and ride home. I did not have that confidence with the Triumph. Also, the frame is almost exactly the same as the GS. It is really a shame how much they copied. At least the Tenere is trying to be a little different.

Engine: I was actually hoping that BMW was going to "retire" the boxer for another engine in the lineup. Trust me, when a new rider to the Adventure Touring segment says they are going to buy a GS your never hear, "Gee, i went with the GS over the Triumph, Ducati, Tenere and Vstrom because of that air cooled boxer engine!" For how wide the boxer is BMW could probably wedge the 1600 in there! I was also thinking that the 1300 would work well also. Heck why not the S1000RR! Also, I know that Rotax also makes some engines for BMW so they might have a 150hp, 100ftlb torque beast they could develop for the GS. Liquid cooling makes all the sense in the world. There are physical limits that just can't be overcome without increased displacement. Trust me, we don't need more displacement in the GS. Just ask BMW, many 1200 GS riders have gone down to the 800GS. This thread is called the "1250" post but I would think they could go with a 1100 boxer and still have a horsepower jump with liquid cooling. Torque is the key to this beast. There is something so satisfying when you are in second gear and roll back the throttle on an uphill dirt section and feel the GS literally move the earth beneath you as you power up the hill. That's torque!

Electronics: half of the posts in ADV are all about how to bypass the canbus or modifying the electronics. Lights, monitoring, GPS, comm systems, electric clothing, blah blah blah...I hope the new GS has plenty of that stuff built in. BMW, don't develop this yourself! Contract with Touratech, Powerlet, Garmin, and others to help you! The biggest things for me are solid protection for the bike in dirt and when it is dropped. Wider foot pegs (pivot pegs). GPS, big lights, great seat that works both sitting and standing, REAL panniers, powerlet outlets everywhere, USB power plug, heated grips, tire pressure monitor, outside temp monitor, trip computer, barometric pressure, elevation, Bluetooth, oh yeah...the kitchen sink as well.

If the engine is up to snuff and full of usable horsepower it must be selectable. Also, turning off ABS easily is key as well. I think three engine modes and three suspension modes are plenty. Just make sure we can tell the difference in our rear ends when we make a change. If its soft suspension, make it soft. If it is hard, by goodness, it better be stiff (insert joke here). can you hire Ohlins to make the suspension? Just so we don't have to all switch when we get the bikes.

Some other things: put the catalytic converter in the exhaust can, makes for a cheap easy modification! Triumph does that and it is great! Do some wind testing on the windshield. One that moves up and down would be cool. Just make sure it covers the rider well. Still unclear why the Adventure has a full windscreen with wings and the base model, does not. Electronic cruise control. Triumph has BMW beat there. Twisting a bolt on my throttle until it "locks" the throttle is not my idea of cruise control. More like suicide. LED headlight and turn signals, wet clutch, larger diameter front wheel, spokes are the only option

Ok, thats my GS rant. See you all next year when I trade in the 2005 for the new GS. Cheers!

So when are these supposed to hit the shores, next year this time? It seems in casual conversations I've had, some people out there are definitely on the fence. I wonder how it has hurt current sales. I know I wouldn't buy anything right now.

As far as the 130hp comments.... Really? You want a bike with less power? It would be awesome to have a bike that can make a pass without needing to get a running start, and also not overheat in stop and go traffic. Of course, if I had to bet, I'd say the liquid cooling probably won't solve that problem. I'm guessing it will be a very small radiator.

Actually, that was pretty good. Big ups!

I don't think BMW is upping the HP to "keep up" with the MS. The HP increase with the new boxer is just a product of the improved technology that comes with the water cooled motor. If BMW wanted a 150hp boxer I think they could do that right now and they haven't. I don't think most people are shopping both a MS and GS as serious alternatives. The MS is an upright sport bike and the GS is the Swiss army knife of bikes. If they were shooting for the same purpose and functionality then I would have to get rid of either my GS or MS. I think they actually compliment each other quite well.