Countersteering confusion : (

Noticed the same thing when I put my F650GS in the shop, and rode an F800ST loaner for a couple days. Holy shit but the steering felt like it was locked!!! :eek1

I was hoping we could postpone this until Friday because of the holiday.

Target fixation happens when you don't understand countersteering. While you look at the object you want to avoid you consciously try to turn away from it as you would in a car which sends you directly where you don't want to be.During normal riding countersteering is natural and requires little or no thought but in a stressfull situation you tend to go with what you know,or think you know. This is the scary part when I hear people say they don't countersteer, they are and don't understand it until its too late.

If you want to fall down. Counter steer isn't. It is a phrase someone came up with to try and get through to people too dumb to know what the front wheel is doing. It didn't work.

You haven't fallen down so keep going. I hate that word and do not allow its use in my classes.

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...5.0.165.856.3j5.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.MM1yQngbi5A

technical stuff... http://books.google.com/books?id=JC...Ai4GwBg&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

If I overcook a turn on pavement or dirt and do not want to run off, it takes a forceful and concious effort to push the inside bar further to make the turn. It usually works...

If I rely on leaning, I will most likely wobble off wide while trying to get slowed up. That can

I'd say your best bet is to take the information folks have put in this thread already, find yourself a deserted stretch of road, and consciously experiment with it. Really figure out what it is your body is doing that makes the bike go the direction you want it too. Try various types of control inputs, even exaggerate some (careful with that!) to see what happens. You can learn a lot from discussion and books, but really only build skills and muscle memory by doing.

I agree, there are been occasions where I literally said to myself "push that damn bar!"

try it on ice that will give you an appreciation of what the bikes is doing at what input.
Bill.

No it doesn't.

Yup. You can half-ass a lot of things in life and still "get through" them OK.

I rode many things for many years before I ever took a BRC. It's easy to pick up bad habits if you don't learn good habits from the start, then practice them regularly. Even then, it's good to have a coach watch your technique occasionally.

Read, take a course from time to time, and practice what you learn. CONCIOUSLY counter-steering made me a lot quicker to react when swerving. Riding dirt has made me a lot more comfortable with throwing a bike around when traction is variable too. There is always room for improvement too.

The #1 single vehicle accident for New and Returning Riders is blowing a corner.

It is a human condition. A rider goes into a corner and something triggers inside them that they are going too fast. The heart rate instantaneously jumps... The brain goes into panic mode... it is almost uncontrollable. ALMOST!


If you train the brain to look where you want to go and to counter-steer then that is what it will do when this happens.


I have been riding for over 40 years and I still have this happen to me almost every year while riding hot on gravel roads. I need to force the reaction.

I have two reasons I want to "know" countersteering:

1) if you know you're doing it, you can do it better; and

2) Riders that don't "know" they're doing it, frequently think they're doing it some other way- leaning their body into a turn (coincidentally pressing the correct bar) for example. When there's an obstacle to avoid, then they panic and try to steer to avoid an obstacle. The result is... not pretty.

As an instructor, I don't care which theory students believe makes countersteering work, or whether they believe any of them. They can believe there are gears in the steering head that are part of a CIA plot to keep terrorists off motorcycles if you want- just believe "press left, go left; press right, go right".

My bike weight 450lbs I weight 190lbs.
I cannot let fear impair my reaction to the perceived threat.
You must control the machine or it will maintain it's current heading without any other input.
The machine will not react for you.

Body position, peg weighting, throttle steering(over steer) and many other things work together to turn the bike.

When Valentino Rossi sticks his leg out going into a corner it's not just for show.

Buy pushing your limits you expand you performance envelope.
If you ride like a granny you will limit any advancment in your skill set.

original question-

And post #6

Thread closed
Happy New Year!

On the track where I race the first corner at the end of the straight is taken at about 130MPH. It takes a LOT of effort to get the bike to turn in- even my little RS250.

Being aware of how ones control inputs are affecting the machine are really necessary to understanding what one is doing. You will find that you actively and consciously push or pull the bars left to go right and vice versa once you have done it a bit and thought about it. You can get a bike to lean over RIGHT NOW by forcefully counter steering, provided your speeds are reasonable. Get going really fast and you can work up quite a sweat.

Target fixation also occurs driving cars. Is that because car drivers don't understand countersteering?

Great question, glad you asked.

No.

I would imagine it happens less in cars. I know I've had target fixation on the bike before, but can't ever remember having it in the car.