I cannot tell a lie...

'Round here, you can get one cheap. Lightly used ones tend to run in the high fives to the mid-upper sixes.

I've known a few Harley riders...worked with two; would go on day cruises with them. We didn't make many miles, between their fuel stops and their rubbing their posteriors to get feeling back in them.

The old guy I bought my Burgman 650 from...he's 88; just gave up riding; he told me he had a Harley for a year before the Burgman. The vibration made his arms numb after less than an hour...he got rid of it fast.

Me, I've made many mistakes in life; but falling for a Harley is not one of them.

For yourself: I'd recommend you RENT one for a day or so, first. A lot of Harley dealers have rental programs. It's not cheap, but it's a chance to live with one for a day or two, and see if it's you or not.

Well, keep in mind I currently ride a Stella, not a Burgman Stella vibrates a lot, and my bum is has been happier than after a jaunt on the scooter, so neither of those points scare me much. I'm used to a rough ride, my Stella is actually smoother than my car, which has pretty stiff coilovers.

I'm not opposed to slightly used, if it's worth it. If a bike with 10,000 miles will be $1k less than new, not worth it. I'll consider the rental for a day, but only if it's this exact bike. If I rent a different Sportster, I won't like it, I know it.

I rode a Harley for many years. Enjoyed every mile. There are many myths out there. Mostly from people who never had one.

Haha I actually keep looking at the seat on the Sportster thinking, that looks a hell of a lot more comfortable than straddling the brick of a seat on my Stella.

There's a lot of very loyal Harley riders, gotta be a reason for that.

Image, luv. The whole glue-on tattoo; Sturgis Bike Week thing...orthodontists with multiple ex-wives and hemorrhoids, can be outlaws on weekends.

I actually was in Sturgis in 2010...entirely unplanned. Was working in central South Dakota and wanted to see Mt. Rushmore. I arrived at the jobsite on my BMW; and on a long weekend, a week before Bike Week, I headed down.

Already it was packed; the whole area between Sturgis and Rapid City and Rushmore. And I was passing trailer after trailer of Harleys.

A few die-hards rode in, too. Saw them at every gas station, limping...

Everyone's gotta find their own note; I get that. But I had friends pressure me into getting admitted into the Harley asylum; and I looked and ran the other way.

Me, I like quiet; I like smooth. I like fast, too; but the other two are as important.

And, I like comfort.

Well, I have plenty of real tattoos, and I hate even visiting the dentist, so I can't subscribe to any of that :)

Never been the type to go for quiet or smooth. Most of my cars have been lowered, exhaust, attention grabbing big wheels, top down and system cranked up. I have lots of tattoos and dress a little funky, I don't blend in too well.

Guess I'll ad my $.02 worth to this interesting conversation. I currently ride a Honda Reflex scooter and a 1971 Yamaha AT1 Enduro 125cc (lots of character here...both in looks and riding!). As mention in other posts, if you think an 883cc Sportster is your next bike of choice, try to ride or rent one before plunking down your money. The Sportster will weigh probably 300 pounds more then your Stella, which will be a MAJOR change for you! If you can't ride one beforehand at least set on one and try to lift it off the side stand and try pushing it around a bit, like you'd have to do around your garage...that 300 pounds will make a BIG difference on either of these operations. And on how easy it is to maneuvor it at low speeds and tight turns.

I did rent an 883 Sportster (used...probably a couple years old by then) on vacation about 10 years ago, for 4 hours. Wanted to see what all the fanaticism was all about. And I enjoyed it. Best part was the "musclecar" feel it had. It vibrated, yes, but not excessively so, at least for the 4 hour ride I had. Worst part was the lack of refinement it had...guess that could be called "character" I suppose. Overal I decided it wasn't what I'd want. You might feel different...but you won't be sure till you ride one.

Yeah sounds like you would fit the Harley , but, you don't realize the Stella is way more cool !! If you want a costume bike get a costume bike. If your thing is "profiling" around town a Harley will be ok. If you want to ride and ride and ride, the rental thing is the way to go first. Rent the Harley model you want to buy then spend 6 or 8 hours going about 80 on the highway,see how you feel. Remember, it,s not what you ride, but, how much fun you have.

That's why I like the Iron 883 though, it doesn't scream Harley. It's a classic, but without that blinged out chrome "biker" image, which is not me.

And I love my Stella to death! She's not going anywhere, and will remain my around town bike for sure. I don't know if I'll ever do a long trip on a bike, I live just outside of NYC and the highways can get pretty messy when you get near the city. I foresee highway riding being limited to visiting friends a half hour away, that sort of riding.

My first harley was a 1996 883 sportster, base version, it had no problem moving my 6' 6" 400 pound butt around, I was not very comfortable on it, but it ran great, never quit and the vibration was a non-issue till you pushed it over 70 mph and power was not a problem either
but I really miss my 97 electra-glide standard

I currently ride a 98 honda helix, which has no problem pulling my still 400 pound butt around, at my size you do not have much choice of what you can ride

you have a go-4 and a wanderlodge thats sick

If that's what you really want then it is what you should get. Though I'll go along with the folks who recommend renting one first. Occassionally what we think we really want doesn't turn otu to be what we thought it was.

Everytime I go into the Aprillia dealership I go and sit on the Mana. They have me on the list to call when they get a demo model in and I'm almost afraid to test ride one since there's a good chance I'll end up leaving with one and I really don't have space for another bike.

While I don't consider lack of reliability character, I do consider a lot of other things character. Like vibration, noise, a slightly clunky, imprecise feel to the controls, and just generally a few quirks here and there. The Sportster has all that, and is still reliable. Unfortunately it does not have a kickstarter, and to me that is a loss. Besides the security it provides, I have always considered being able to kickstart your bike to be an important part of the riding experience.

I have never ridden either the W650 or the new Bonneville, but I have sat on them with the engine running. It felt like sitting on a sewing machine. No vibration, and very little noise. Absolutely no comparison to the old Bonneville, which made a beautiful, and somewhat loud noise, and the vibration would almost shake your teeth out, and had a somewhat clunky transmission. What Triumph should have done was keep those traits, and just made it reliable. A Sportster still has those characteristics, and it is reliable. A bike doesn't have to be boring to be reliable.

And yes, having an emotional bond with your motorcycle is also part of riding for me. Unfortunately most of the bikes I have owned have simply been too bland to have any actual feelings about. I have never had an emotional attachment to an Asian motorcycle. I have enjoyed many of them, but never really developed a relationship with them. They all just seem so fake to me. I had a love/hate affair with my '66 Bonneville, but I can see caring more about even a new Bonneville than a new Japanese bike, just because of the name on the tank. But it is still boring. A Royal Enfield would probably not be boring, but it would not be reliable either. So again, if you want both character AND reliability, the Sportster is about it.

I also have a 1971 VeloSolex moped (made in France), a 1977 Puch moped (made in Austria) and of course my Stella, made in India, designed by Vespa. I love all 3 of those, and will not likely ever get rid of them. Unlike Japanese machines, they do provoke an emotional response. They are all quirky and temperamental, but so far have been very reliable. But they are far from being hop on and go machines, and require a lot of fiddling and maintenance.


And I do not consider minor issues like tiny oil leaks (the rear wheel on a Stella is always messy, as it was on the Vespas of that era, part of the reason is the 2 stroke exhaust exits right next to the rear wheel. And mine has whitewalls. Or did) and having to fiddle with the choke to get it going. To me it is reliable if it doesn't leave you stranded (and that would include a lot of brand new bikes with fuel injection, ABS, and tube type tires with no centerstand) What do you do on a TU250, or any other bike with tube type tires and no centerstand when you have a flat? At least the Bonnie and Sportster have tubeless tires, and the Enfield has a centerstand. The Stella even has a spare tire already mounted.


I'm not looking for a 2 wheeled car. I want more than transportation from a bike. I want fun. Lots of it. And very few bikes available today provide my definition of fun. The EX500 is fun, but only on curvy roads. It also sounds like a sewing machine. And I am getting to old for the bent over riding position of even a softcore sportbike.

Maybe I should be looking at a Sportster. I'm a little bit big for one, but with a full size seat and forward controls I should fit ok. And not wanting to be part of the "Harley scene" I don't care what riders of big twins think of it. Unlike most Harley riders, I always wear a full face helmet anyway.

JerryH, beautiful music starting about 1:00. I was but a small fry in the 1960's but well remember Triumph Twins at full song. If I could buy a Kawasaki W800 it would already be here, likely with a set of those Dunstall replica pipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYBfkCk4tKY

Five W650's on Ebay right now, including a beautiful cafe racer version.

"Image" is what you make of it. You don't have to confine yourself to a pigeonhole unless you want to. The whole "Harley thing is much overblown, anyway. We all get the same bugs in our teeth.

I don't own a Harley and don't expect to. I have ridden a few, curious about that very question, why do they have such a following? They build good bikes, but so do Yamaha and Honda and Kawasaki, for half the price. I was happy to get back on my V-Star, every time. It is less buzzy and doesn't distract me with the obvious "rattle, whir, click, click" of the mechanical noise from the pushrods, which are outside the crankcase. When I ask about it, I'm told that "Harley guys" like that, and expect it. Whatever. Other than that, its a very nice bike, just not for me.

My Yamaha V-Star 1100 Silverado is a "classic" bike, rather than "retro". It is sorta both, actually. It's 615 lbs before any of the chrome, modified with new pipes and air and rejetted to produce about 66hp at the back wheel. It's a very nice bike on the highway, although the front is somewhat mushy compared to my Vulcan. The Burgman goes through the twisties better than either.

My wife rides a Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Classic LT, also dressed and chromed out and with a Stage 3 kit, 58 hp driving a smaller pulley to shift the torque band. It is 540 lbs and produces 58 hp after mods, again less than 10 lbs/hp. The smaller that number, the quicker the bike goes, and this is a very quick and very fast Vulcan, as Vulcans go. The Vulcan 900 and the Honda 750 Shadow are touted as the best cruiser-style bike for a woman, in newspeak "a smaller, lighter rider". My wife handles it easily, whereas the Burgman is sometimes still a big bike for her. She is 5'9, 130 lbs.

The Burgmans are 650 Executives, "twist-and-go" bikes more like the Jetsons than Easy Rider. They are immensely comfortable on the highway, practical and surprisingly capable. But they are not "retro" at all. It is also big --- as long and about as heavy as my V-Star. We tour on them, sometimes two days and sometimes two weeks, ranging as far as 3500 miles quite comfortably.

It's whatever your style is.

The Harley has a style as well, reminiscent of a street legal rat rod. In cruiser terms it is a "custom" rather than a "classic" and all the Japanese makers sell them that way. The latter comes with a full set of hardware including a windshield and light bar, passenger seat and sissy bar, luggage rack, saddlebags, and generally lots of chrome. The former is stripped down to the minimum, usually flat black, normally with short pipes and fenders, custom wheels, etc.

The first thing to know about cruisers, whatever style, is that they are never finished. Most people start off by replacing the seat, as a matter of fact. A nice one is $700 and it goes on from there, adding stuff and improving stuff and spending money on style. This is not as much of a problem with sports bikes or scooters. Quadrophenia.is out of style, except in Manila.

Keep your Stella. We started out with a pair of 125 Vinos. We still have one that we use in town. You can't beat a small scooter in the city unless you're confronted with urban speedways, er, freeways. Whatever you choose, make sure it's really the bike you want before you get too invested in it.

Ride several bikes, different bikes, including a "custom" V-Star 650, Honda 750 Shadow and 900 Vulcan. Compare what you get with what they cost. One will fit you better than the others. Get the wheels you want and then make whatever other changes you want to make the bike your own.

A guy told me once about how great it was, he spent $23,000 on this wonderful Harley and then the dealer gave him a coupon for $2000 in Harley-branded gear and apparel. Marketing genius --- charge more for the bike than other makers, than get him to advertise for free and make him feel good about it. Go figger.

Riding a bike is not about riding in traffic. Riding a bike is about riding on the open road. Once you have a bike that will go on the highway, your needs may change. The suggestion to rent a bike is a good one. You might want to prowl craigslist and other online classifieds. Buy a used bike and ride it for a year, then sell it when you are ready to go upscale.

Happy shopping
Scott Fraser
Calgary

Well, I see it like this... You can get a Honda Accord loaded up with the bells and whistles for a lot less than you'd pay for a BMW with the same features. The Honda will probably require nearly nothing and any parts and work will be cheap, however the BMW will be way more satisfying to drive and not feel like an appliance. It's not the image or even the badge, it's the soul, it's intangible.

I can't own something I don't love. I don't have a desire to own a Japanese bike (unless vintage, which isn't in the cards) and I don't feel like buying something to try it out, knowing I won't love it. I test drive things as a technicality, I know what I want before the test drive, if I fall in love, the test drive doesn't mean anything, it's a done deal.

I'm not saying other people don't love them, I know they do. I know people who love Toyotas and Nissans too. But for me, I just can't, it's not me.

" Me, I like quiet; I like smooth. I like fast, too; but the other two are as important" You hit the nail right on the head. When it comes to vehicles, cars as well as bikes, smooth and quiet are the last things I'm looking for. I like rough and loud. To me it is part of the experience of operating a vehicle with an internal combustion engine. Fast is good too, but not usable on the road if you want to keep your license. I want to hear and feel that engine, not be insulated from it. I also like to feel the tires on the road, so I am not into mushy suspension. In short, I want a MACHINE.

I started working on cars and bikes, and even tractors, at a very young age. I learned to love mechanical things, especially the sounds, feelings, and smells associated with them. I grew up on a farm, and started riding and driving around age 8. The guy that owned the farm had an old '40s model John Deere Model B, also known as a "poppin johnny". It was a 2 cylinder gas engine with a huge external flywheel. No electric starter on that thing, you started it by going through a very precise drill of setting everything just right, then grabbing a hold of that huge flywheel and spinning it by hand. If and only if you got everything right, it would start up on the second or third try. If not, you could spin that flywheel all day and it wouldn't even fire. I quickly developed an affection for the thing, and learned how to start it. The foreman said I was the youngest kid he had ever seen that could start one. They didn't use it much, it was an antique even back then. If I paid for the gas, they let me drive it all over, hours at the time. It sounded a lot like a Harley, but with a steadier idle. And when you opened the throttle, it would go POP POP POP POP and take off. Even in the highest gear, it was slow, but you could pull trees out of the ground with it. It had a spring seat that bounced up and down, and I just loved the feel and the sound of that engine. If I still lived on a farm, I'd own one today, just to play with.



But a Harley comes pretty close to the sound and feel, and you can ride it on the road. Even a new Harley is a bit too refined for me, I would prefer a kickstarter and a carb, but they are the closest thing available to what I want. They did rubber mount the engine in the Sportster in '04, which makes the bike shake a little less, but at idle the engine is still jumping around all over the place.


I definitely recommend trying a Harley before making a decision. There is just nothing out there that has the sound and feel of a Harley. With louder pipes, even the little 883 sounds just like a big twin. The key to that sound and vibration is the long stroke 45 degree single crankpin engine. The 883 has the same stroke as the 1200. When the Japanese started copying the Harley look, their engineers resorted to offset crankpins to smooth out the idle, and make them a lot smoother. Sometimes they even added counterbalancers. And they didn't sell. Finally the Japanese learned what people who bought v-twin cruisers wanted, dumped the balancers, and went with single crankpins, just like Harley. Now their bikes started selling. And they sold well for a long time, up until just a few years ago, when the price of Harleys, especially used ones, started coming down, and the price of new Japanese bikes went through the roof. Now people could have the real thing for the same or less than an Asian copy, and Harley sales picked up, both new and used. The only place the Japanese can hold their own anymore is with sportbikes and ATVs.


Another aspect of Harleys that I like, is that they can be easily and cheaply rebuilt, and ridden forever, just like the Stella. It is almost impossible to find parts for a Japanese bike much more than 10 years old. They were designed to be disposable, to be used up and scrapped, and replaced with the latest greatest thing, which never seems to be as good as what came before it.

my w650 with lower bars:



Yes it has lots of chrome which, like you, I don't like. Currently the fenders are off being powder coated then I'll paint them the same metallic silver as the gas tank. I might wrap the headers...trying to tone it down to my liking/taste. I redid the seat and got rid of the chrome signals with some smaller brushed aluminum ones. The only thing that I want to pop on this bike is the motor.

Stock it rides/handles kinda wierd with the cruiser style bars but once lower bars are put on it becomes a whole another bike. At first I was not happy with the ride/feel/looks of the stock bars but once I put lower bars on man what a difference!

As far as how it rides and feels. It rides/feels just like an old bike. Little smoother then the old Triumphs because of the counter balancer in the motor. What you get is the reliability of a japanese bike with the ride/feel and looks of a vintage British bike. The w650 rides/feels/looks more like an old Triumph then the new Triumphs.

And remember it ain't a real bike unless it has a kick start! I normally use the electric but when around other "bikers" I'll always kickstart to rub it in their faces.

That W650 is Beautiful.