The best way to hurt someone is in their wallet! Or indirectly their ins. policies...which result in a good smack to the wallet. We all need to ride or drive , well I do. I don't know what I would do if that was taken away. Well I do, I would do it illegally.....that is how much it means to me. So, I now follow the rules, well as close to them as I can to stay clear of the man....so to speak. So, to force or get something done easily is to make it hurt and I mean hurt not sting. Fines and points seems to work and work well. Is it right? That is up to your way of seeing the big picture. Yes I have thought that with technology in today's world why this hasn't been added into every vehicle as it moves down the assembly line. IMHO....the guys on the street would figure it out in a matter of days if not hours how to bypass it and we're back to square one once again. So now we're back to getting hurt once again. It is simple......either learn to accept the laws or get hurt......we do have a choice.....don't we?
In most cases, yes. In the case you are referring to, then no. That was your fault for lending me the car.
Damn....someone else that see's it as I do..! It's your responcibility to lend your vehicle to a responcible person....if you do, nothing will come of it, if you don't .....you pay for your mistake! Simple really. Plus after you get the fine etc they won't ever get to borrow your vehicle again....if you have any smarts that is.
The problem with fines is they are unfair and intended to hurt the lower class to lower middle class, what about the ruling class. That's right the ruling class makes the rules. For the fine system to be fair and have the desired effect on everyone the fine should be a percentage of your previous years tax return. For the offspring of the rich let the fine be a percentage of the household income... Just a thought!
I'm thinking along this way as well. It's entirely the responsibility of the vehicle owner to give his keys to someone of high regard, and to take responsibility for this if he is not a good judge of character. It's not the responsibility of the state [government, police, municipality, etc] to do go around trying to determine who was driving your car, it's the car owners responsibility. As an example in B.C., currently if you activate a red light camera here [in other words, blow a solid red light], the license plate equipped car gets a picture taken of it in the middle of the intersection. The registered operator of that vehicle gets the fine, but as the 'state' cannot determine the operator's identity, the registered operator does NOT get the additional 3 demerit points on their driving record. IMO, this is totally logical.
The fines are not unfair and intended to hurt the lower class, as you may think. A fine is designated for a certain breakage of law, and that's it. Ruling class?? Your really stretching things here. How far you want this way of thinking to go? People of lower income get off scott free? Totally illogical thinking. People of lower income can't think for themselves?? Please,,,,
Yes they are my friend! People with lower income would not get off scott free, they would recieve a fine proportional to thier income. What is illogical to me is that one person must work two days or more to pay a $200.00 fine when the other guy pays for the same fine in a days work and the elite pays for it in a few hours work or less. By the way, a lot of the lower income people I know can think for themselves... Their thoughts are just ignored because of where they come from. The current system is not fair, just easier to administrate and easier on the more fortunate...
Flawed logic. Penalty for crime is universal. A rich man faces the same penalty as a poor man. Personally, I think that someone who cries foul over such things has probably broken the rules too often himself. It would take me a 2.5 shifts at my job to pay a $200 fine. I'm smart enough to play by the rules and keep my money in my pocket.
Just wanted to clarify, I disagree entirely with your logic. This surely will be the downfall of your region of the country. Yes, there are those that are fortunate to be born into money, but I think those are in the minority, most of those with money have worked their ass off.
I agree,if the clerks havent figured out how to process tickets and deposit money quickly by now they have themselves to blame,they set up traps here in the US and write 100's of tickets in a morning,a single busy cop can do 8 in an hour. Times 400.00 per each 10 mph over ticket. If their beurocracy cant make a profit on that they are paying them selves too much. Now they charge an extra 50.00 just to allow a ticket getter to go to traffic school,+ the ticket fee + the school fee. I say bullshit to them saying they dont break even writing tickets. Cops are paid to be out there rather they write tickets or not,they say there are no quotas,either way they pick a good hiding spot they can nail people all day,especially with their cars with the lights that are flush and dont show from the front so they can sneak up easier. Its a racket and the rates are being raised all the time.
The solution is very easy.....don't break the law and keep all your hard earned money in your pocket. Not to offend anyone who needs to break the laws to get somewhere on time or someone who needs to fly through their windshield or allow someone else who is going to break the laws while driving their car irresponcably......we all have the same choice to make......obey the laws, whatever they are....OR...pay the consequence of not doing so. We all get the same fine or punishment or that wouldn't be fair as a whole. Which would start another revolution! Are we not all equal? We all could have chosen to learn way back when at school....some of us did better than others and that now is reflected in their earnings. Simple. I'm not a top wage earner either or ever was......nor did I always obey the laws. But in today's world where the costs of driving or riding are directly related to breaking the laws....it only makes sense to start obeying them. Bring on photo radar, photo cell pics....photo anything.....it proves it was you in the car at the time with a cell phone in your hand or a book or a can of hair spray, whatever.....driving is an operation that requires us to pay attention to what is going on around us or bad things can happen. We after all are the ones who suffer the most when drivers don't concentrate.....we are motorcyclists....aren't we? We have an almost zero chance of survival against any car or truck when the two meet. So....why the complaining about laws that protect us???
+1 Driving is a skill, not an autonomic process. There are rules and penalties for very good reason and if you don't like the rules, stay off the road.
As I with your logic, however I have told you why and yet you fail to do so... Why? Is your logic flawed? Maybe when you write it down and reread it, you no longer believe or understand it... How is my logic the downfall of my region???
Photo radar... that is a little to "big brother" for may taste... The real problem with photo radar is it is only effective for the kilometer where the device is located. Preceding and following the device you have people reducing speed and accelerating haphazerdly causing a more dangerous situation than without the device. They are revenue generating devices that cause more harm than good. Read the studies... Red light cameras are even more dangerous in the USA though. By the way I am not complaining againt the law, I am only pointing out that some of the methods of enforcement are ineffevtive, unfair and in some cases downright stupid. I think we all want safer roads, I just want an effective and fair enforcment not lip service from an ineffective elected official who fails to even look at the big picture. There is quote from Albert Einstein, I can't remember it exacly, but it goes someting like this " Nothing is more destructive of government and respect for the laws of the land than a government who passes laws that can't be enforced" or that it cannot enforce ... or that it fails to enforce effectively... Anyone seeing the similarities ???
This is a very good thread.....the reading is getting typical though......we are starting to argue over simple things and ignoring the big picture. You either agree that these practices are dangerous to our use of the road or you don't. If you don't, imho, you haven't been personally affected by the cause yet. You haven't seen the problem being discussed....ever....lol. It doesn't matter the way the fines are dished out, they just need to be dished out. Plain and simple. If it's the amount of money that upsets you, then how about piling up the points? That is universal, rich or poor all have the same limits. Sure the rich can easily hire a driver if they have to and the poor ride the public system. It also may not be a criminal offence yet.....do we really want or need it to become one? Again arguing over technicalities.......wrong is wrong....resulting damages are still the same. We lose. It's a weight problem.....average bike 500lbs against an average car/truck 3000lbs. I could be out by a few either way....same result.... It comes down to you either will obey the laws or you will not. We on bikes sort of have to....we can't ride with a cell phone or book or whatever in our hands where as the 4 wheeled vehicles are capable. 99.9% of us riders also drive.....so are we the 99.9% going to be part of the solution or part of the problem? Now, who's getting the first cameras.....??? Who's wanting to be the first to try them out? Don't all set up to the line at once.....lol. OK.....I'll do it. I'm not a scared! Bring it on......
Job Frankly, I've had better but it doesn't change the basis for my opinion. If I made $200/hr I'd still not enjoy paying for a stupid choice I made, and that is the point of fines.
