'00 R1150GS High Mileage Brake Calipers Stuck and Misaligned

Hey guys,

I'm having troubles with my brake calipers, and I wanted to come here for advice before I hand these parts off to a dealer and say "Make these work."

I changed the pads the other day after wearing the old pads out (OEM pads bought from the dealer), and replaced them with the Carbone Lorraine pads from Beemerboneyard. I had never done it before, so I wasn't quite sure what all I was forgetting to do. I had read about lubing parts up while things were apart, cleaning pistons, etc. but I wasn't sure how to do any of it, so I looked it over and decided things were already clean enough. Nothing looked too gunky or messed up, so I ran with it.

They stopped okay and while a bit slower to stop than my old brakes, I chalked it up to the pads needing to mate to the rotors. They got a little better and I rode on.

Went on a long trip this weekend and noticed while riding around town that my front brakes would squeak constantly at low speeds with no brake pulled. If I gave them a touch of brake the squeak stopped. It had rained this weekend so as usual my rotors got a tiny bit rusty. Because of this, I could see that my pads weren't pressing on the outsides of the rotors, only the insides. After getting home today I tore them apart and noticed my pads were already wearing funny. The pistons don't move smoothly either and one of them is stuck. The rear caliper wasn't sliding along the pin like it should've been so one pad of my rears is already half gone.

I've pulled the pads back out, and with the calipers resting on their mounts, and I'm trying to decide what to do. Can I just clean and lube them from the outside or do they need rebuilding? My Clymer manual shows how to rebuild them, and I could order the kit, but is it something fairly simple to do? I don't know if the calipers have ever been rebuilt or not, and I'd much rather have a long term fix for this kind of thing. I tried hosing it down in brake cleaner and scrubbing with a toothbrush but it didn't help much.

TL;DR. I have stuck and misaligned pistons in both front and rear calipers. Is it relatively easy and worth it to rebuild them myself, can they simply be cleaned and lubed instead, or do I hand them to a dealer and tell him to make them work?

Ben

your original rubber brake lines are failing.... change them now. do not bleed the brakes... it will only put chunks of rubber into the ABS module and kill it. happened to me and many others

they fail on the inside... rubber flakes off and will not the fluid drain back out of the slave cylinder. you can apply the brakes, but they don't release

Brake lines would be a good idea, just because of the age of the bike. I'm not sure it will solve your problem though. If your pistons don't extend in unison (or close to it) it's time for a caliper rebuild. It's messy but pretty straightforward. Quick tip: Use brake presure to extend all the pistons before you split the caliper. there are some pretty good Youtube videos on the topic.

I found the brake rebuild kits at a nearby dealer and can get them on order nor problem. And I've been looking at the prices for the OEM rubber brake lines ... woow I thought the kits were pricey! What are your thoughts on aftermarket lines, if there are any to be found? Is OEM worth the expense?

No point in re-introducing the same problem. Go with the spiegler braided brake lines.

These look sharp and considerably cheaper than OEM, but it doesn't tell me exactly what's in the kit. Does it contain everything to do a complete line swap? All the washers, banjo bolts, etc?

I found the rear repair kit on MAX BMW and I noticed it doesn't come with pistons. Is this an oversight in the picture or is there some other way to get pistons? Seems strange that the fronts come with them but the rears don't.

No banjo bolts, you reuse the original ones.
My Spiegler set came with some crush washers to spare. I used them all up while figuring out a way to get the banjos aligned right. The rear line was too short by a mm or two (I.e. stretched super-tight) when the banjos were allowed to touch the original stops.

my spiegler kit came with everything... including new washers.

I reuse crush washers all the time.. oil and FD,
wouldn't reuse brake line washers.

Galfer line kits come with everything, lines, washers, and bolts. All for less than $200.

+1

Thanks for the advice guys! I did a bit of research on the Galfers and looks like they don't use the metal crossover line on the front wheel and opt for just a longer hose to get to the far side caliper. Is this ever a problem or does it just look awkward? I will admit I am a bit vain when it comes to mein Motorrad haha.

I've found some pictures of the kits for the Spieglers (surprisingly few on their website, had to use Google image search), and it looks like they come with new everything: bolts, washers, etc. There is one part though I don't know what it's for - it's two halves of a square with hole in the middle of it. Here's the image I found.

http://img.f.ridersdiscount.com/forum/spiegler/spiegler_rennsport_brake_lines-1.jpg

I'm not positive this is the BMW kit for my bike, so maybe this is some random part for some other random bike, but I thought I'd ask what you guys thought it was.

Gonna call up the bike shop today and compare prices then get a set on order. I've got rebuild kits coming in the mail soon too, so in a week or so I'll have all new brakes. Woohoo!

That tool you found is for clamping the crimped end of a line so you can adjust the rotation angle of the banjo.

The Spiegler kit I ordered from Spiegler directly did NOT come with banjo bolts. It DOES come with plenty of washers. It does come with a T-adapter that connects two new lines, one from the ABS unit and the other to the right caliper, to the existing metal crossover line. Another new line connects from that to the left caliper.

From my reading, there was an early batch of those T-adapters that had cracks. Spiegler recalled and exchanged them. I had minor issues with the length of two of the new lines in front, and lots of issues (already described) with the new rear line.

I have found these folks to be very helpful regarding brake parts for BMWs. They know, brake line lengths and other details. They ship fast and their prices are competitive. I would never use OEM brake parts. The aftermarket brake stuff is better and half the price and this vendor can provide help over the phone if needed.

http://cyclebrakes.com/html/custom_lines.html

If you have a cocked piston in a caliper, that is a serious problem and I don't know if it is repairable. Brake calipers should not be split unless absolutely necessary.

I would remove all the calipers and remove the pads, anti-squeal plates, anti-rattle clips being careful to keep calipers and pads as sets and clean and lubricate everything according to good brake service practices.

Also make sure the clips are not broken, rusty or out of place.

Also, I would thoroughly drain and clean the fluid from each caliper and reestablish smooth piston operation by alternately applying vacuum and pressure to the bleed port. A vacuum source is your shop vac. Get those calipers clean inside.

Then inspect the caliper pins for adequate lubrication and apply grease if needed.

Then, I would completely vacuum all the DOT4 from the system, install new flexible SS lines, install the pads into the now functioning calipers and remount to the bike.

Fill the clean, empty reservoirs with fresh DOT4 and vacuum DOT4 into each brake circuit with your shop vac starting at the ABS hydro unit.

Once filled with fluid, check for firm operation on the center stand and go for a cautious ride.

Report back.

You are correct. It hasn't been a problem for me. I routed the hose through the retainer on the left side. The ABS wire gets zip tied to the line and it all looks good.

Hmm, I think I used the wrong words there, def. When I say misaligned, I mean I don't think the pistons are cocked at an angle in the bore preventing them from traveling. I think they are pushing unequally because I'm getting uneven wear on the pads. One of them got stuck while I was pushing them in with my fingers then back out with the brakes.

I think with these rebuild kits I should fix my problems, but thanks for the warnings on not splitting the shells. The Clymer manual says to do it, but every post I've read so far says don't. I don't think it'll be too much trouble to clean them without separating once the pistons are all out. I'll get back to you when these kits come in and I start tearing stuff apart. :)

I think the Galfer lines are the way to go. I like that they come with new banjo bolts, and if the loop-over doesn't look awkward it's probably the way to go anyway. One fewer place for it to leak. I'll get them on order today. Thanks for the help guys.

Finally got all my parts in and had time to monkey with them today. Got my new Galfer brake lines on (they don't fit nearly as slick as my old ones and I'm disappointed - if I could do it again, I'd try the Spieglers) and my calipers rebuilt. I was still having problems with my brakes not working; my fronts would only work the second time I pumped the brake lever, and the rear didn't work at all.

I tried vacuum bleeding with my Mityvac and while that pulled the majority of the air out, it didn't get me all the way. I took the vacuum pump off leaving the tube and the reservoir and bled the old school way, and that helped a lot. Now the fronts are useable and I could feel the rears biting a little bit, though they would never have stopped me.

The Rears:
I sort of fixed the rears by taking the caliper back off and the pads out, then taking the lid off the rear master cylinder reservoir. I would pump the rear brake lever slowly with my hand and feel the pistons extend out, and once they were both out 3/4s an inch or so, I would squeeze them back in as hard as I could. Oddly enough, I would hear what sounded like fluid squirting through a small hole near the brake lever pump, though I'm not sure which line it was on, the one coming from or going to the ABS unit. But if it were completely hydro-locked, I shouldn't be able to hear the liquid "squirting," as that sound is the fluid mixing with air. Looking into the master cylinder I would see little bubbles of air floating up from the hole in the bottom of the reservoir. I did this maybe a half dozen times and got air bubbles every time. Ideally I'd like to have *all* the air out, but I didn't want to sit there and do that all day. I buttoned everything back up and gave it a test ride to see if it was doing anything - they work now and if I stomp on them the ABS kicks on like it should. I'm tempted to leave it alone, but I don't like the idea of knowing there is air in the lines. Has anyone had a mysterious air bubble do this?

The Fronts:
While the pump-open-close-release method worked way better and I did get more air out, and while the brakes work and stop me safely, they still feel kind of spongy. I guess I'm not sure what kind of advice I'm looking for other, but has anyone got thoughts on what else to check to fix that spongy feeling? I have replaced the pads in the calipers and didn't know about the roughing up of the rotor for a better binding surface when putting on new pads of a different kind. Before replacing all the lines and rebuilding the calipers, I put about 500 miles on the pads. Is it too late to rough up the rotors and somehow rough the pads up to make a new bind? Also, since the bike has been sitting for a few weeks now, my rotors were light-to-moderately rusty before my test rides today. Will the rust embed in the pads and degrade their stopping power?

Sorry this one was a long one - I tried to be concise, just a lot of info to get out there.

There are bleed nipples on the ABS unit. Try bleeding there as there the highest point. You do have to take the tank off to get to them.

Does the front line kit have 90° bend at the caliper banjo, or 30°?

Bleeding the front after replacing the lines took me more than five cycles (bleed ABS - right caliper - left caliper), but got rid of the spongy feeling. When I replaced the rear line the second time, I only bled at the caliper. It took a while to get the air out. The first five or so brake-open bleed screw-close bleed screw-release brake cycles it seemed nothing was happening, but eventually it worked.

I'm just glad I originally bought a quart of DOT 4....