Best LED Aux Driving Lights (at a reasonable price)?

I bought a 10W LED light on ebay. It appears to be a close relative of Denali D1http://www.twistedthrottle.com/denali-d1-led-lighting-2-light-kit-with-full-wiring-harness-and-m10-mount, Cyclops NXG http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/?page=products&id=82 and some other lights. The only differences I could see were in reflectors and diffusers, which vary with the focusing options- sharp beam, long range or wide beam short range. I asked several vendors about the advantages of their lights over the Chinese ones and got either vague answers or no answers at all. It looks that extra money will not buy you better lights, however the "brand name lights" come with wire harnesses, US support and warranty. Of course they also cost 4 times more.

The light




What is inside



The LED is marked XM-L, which is a model of Cree LED. Quick look at the datasheet http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXML.pdf shows that genuine LEDs look exactly like the one in the light and XM-L is really a 10W lamp. So the light source is the real deal, not some knock-off.

Other parts of the light.



I haven't install the light on the bike yet, but tested it in my garage. The light produces a cone shaped beam, with about 10 degrees spread. Removing the plastic diffuser converts the beam to a wide flood. In any case the LED is as bright as the sun. I aimed it on a house about 250' away and could clearly see the illumination. I walked to that house and from that distance the light was painful to look into. I think I'm going to wire it to complement the high beams, because using it on a road with an oncoming traffic is irresponsible and dangerous.

Patented lights Pirated by the Chinese, US sellers have and will get letters.
Kinda like buying a fake Rolex, Its cheaper and will fool many.But in the end you really do get what you pay for.
I hope I was clear and consise about the difference in the products we represent and Chinese made products. I would never be vague about that subject.

What is the patent number you mentioned? It happens that Chinese copy a US design and sell it domestically and abroad, but these lights are sold by at least 3 US "Brand name" companies and some nameless ones. You can't find fake Rolexes in US stores. I could only compare my light to Denali, and the similarities are striking. They will even mate together, it can't be a coincidence. You also mentioned that your lights are operating at constant voltage. But the correct way to drive LEDs is by a stable current. I'm pretty sure that the light I bought is current driven, that large resistor marked R075 is a good indicator. I don't see a temperature sensor, most likely it is on the other side of the board. So far I couldn't find any shortcuts and compromises in the design. You suggested that that LED efficacy (binning) may be different. According to the Cree datasheet above, the output difference between the highest and the lowest bins of XM-Ls is about 10%, hardly a significant number, considering a +-7% tolerance within each bin. May be you can post a picture of your NXG disassembled and point out the differences.

Gene, when I saw them they looked exactly like the Vision X Solstice lights that I have installed in the past.



Jim

Which are identical to Denali's (it even says Vision X on the mobo in the older Denali models).

I did spend way more than I should, but I ended up getting Denali D2D's are they are awesome. Probably not something the OP is looking for (price-wise)...

Yes, the Chinese knockoffs use the same basic housing shape and in some cases the LED is the same. However, the driver (or circuit board that runs the light) is of poor quality and drives less Lumens (light) out of the LED. Although the LED may be rated for 900 Lumens it is unlikely that is what is being emmited.

Also, the optics in front of the LED really determine the true light value. Lumens is a measurement at the exact source (LED). It does not account for what you are passing the light through. If you were to take the same LED and push the light through a lens of 90% purity (Deanali LED lights) or a coke bottle the same 900 Lumens would project two completely different results.

If you want a less expensive light than you can be sure it won't be as bright and won't last as long.

I would equate the Cree LED in these knockoff housings to putting racing fuel in a Ford Fiesta. The fancy go-juice in a car that cannot get out of it's own way won't make it a competitve race car.

Kevin

I also noticed that VisionX sells the same lights. Would be interesting if one of the vendors gave detailed explanation of the differences, if any. From time to time I see posts by clothing makers explaining differences in materials, stitching, membranes, etc and I find them very informative and useful. I realize that fast wire harnesses, installation manuals, fast shipping, service and warranty all add a good deal of value to the lights, however so far it seems that the lights themselves are the same or similar to those sold directly from China.

Kevin, thanks for your comment, but it raises more questions.

Everyone calls the Chinese lights knockoffs, but who created the original design and why it is pretty much identical across the vendors? I know that TwistedThrottle designs and manufactures some products and distributes others, I have items from both categories and they are vrey good. But situation with the light is anything, but clear. If they were design for motorcycle, not as "work light" how they are called on Chinese sites, why the beam pattern is not suitable for the road? Strange, but currently Harley is the only bike for which street legal LED lighting is available.

It doesn't look to be a poor quality to me. I haven't measured current and voltage on the LED, however the whole light draws 10W, just as it should. The driver has a coil and many capacitors, I'm fairly certain that it is PWM based and is over 90% efficient. I can easily verify it with an voltmeter and oscilloscope.

Optics in these lights are very simple. Impurities and light loss would be noticeable to a bare eye. I didn't find any.

Actually if the lights are inexpensive, it is OK if they will last fo 2 years. LED technology is developing rapidly, probably in 2 years the light could be replaced with a superior product.
But I still can't understand why your or other "Brand name" lights are better. Can you post some pictures of them disassembled, like I did above?

I believe I just addressed the differences. Please take a look at post #147

I cannot be more specific than that without testing a set of lights you feel are the same. Yes, they are similar in that they are the same shape and do emit light. That is where the similarities end.

A while back we wrote up an article describing the differences to read: Follow This Link

How far does the light travel?

Twisted Throttle designed a test to measure the effective beam distance. We attached a Lux meter to a measuring wheel and measured the distance at which the meter was able to register one Lux of light. This is about enough light to read by. Other companies have gone to .5 Lux but we felt that one Lux was a better threshold to measure against.

We measured the stock headlights on a 2009 BMW R1200GS. The low beam reads one Lux at 88 feet. The same bike registered 153 feet with the highbeam on. When we turned on the Denali D1 we were able to wheel out to 290 feet before the meter read below one Lux. That is a real world result.

I hope this helps. I do not want to appear defensive. We are very proud of our lights. They come as a complete solution. We include a harness that is fused and includes a relay. Since there is a relay the lights will turn off when you turn off the ignition. Should you want to turn the lights off, we also have integrated into the wiring loom a power switch. The connectors are over-engineered and we have tech support to help you with the installation and a five year full replacement warranty. We also stock everything in our warehouse and ship all orders taken before 3pm (EST) the same day. The only thing to figure out is the mount for your bike. We have an extensive application chart of what we know to work with most of the popular models and universal solutions for those we do not know about. There is a new universal mount in the works right now that is very versatile. You should see that as early as next week.

Kev

An emitter does not make a light. Plain and simple. Much more goes into an LEd than what emitter it might be running.
I certainly can provide a patent # but really dont see the point.
The fact is that the particular light that is shown here is a flat out rip off. Others will deal with the vendors.
How about a link where you purchased the knockoff light from?
PM would be great.
Its very easy for those that know what they are looking at to recognize the difference,yet almost impossible for the layman to tell. How would you know if there are shortcuts or not?
The original was designed and made by VisionX co branded by Cyclops .Twisted throttle,Maglight and a few other select distributors.
Like Twisted throttle we offer a turn key solution to motorcycle lighting needs. We stand behind our products with lifetime warranties, and customer service second to none. I take pride in being a No BS person, that translates to our companies values and customer support.
I cant change your mind, no matter what I might say.
You will need the experience and a comparison to other quality lights to make a true assessment.
One thing I have noticed since offering our products on ADV Rider is that riders will get a cheap light then Rave about it, soon many have failures or issues, but never come back and say anything about that? Human nature.. I think so.
You get what you pay for, no ones getting rich here.
I wont comment on this thread any longer. Happy to answer any Q's in our vendors thread.
I wish you luck.

Here are the images you requested:





One thing I never noticed that even the little bolts that hold the lens cover on have washers and thread locker. Another cool little bit that doesn't NEED to be done but makes for a better, more reliable products.

Kev

Well, this is what I call a vague response. You alleged that somehow produce less light. I don't think this is the case because Chinese lights use the same LEDs, draw the same current and have a good quality driver circuitry. I have yet to see a single fact proving that the brand name lights are different. Quite possible all of them are made on the same factory.

I agree that you include a lot more value in form of the harness, warranty, etc- I mentioned it myself few posts earlier. I'm discussing the lights themselves, not a complete solution.

Kevin,
Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted. The driver circuitry is on the other side of the board, so I can't comment on it, but it is clear that the light is different. The LED there looks like one from Seoul Semiconductor http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Seoul Semiconductor/W724C0.pdf rather than Cree.

So why mention the patent if you were not going to provide it?
[/QUOTE]

I bought that light from China. I can PM you the exact link, but these lights are sold all over the Internet from US and foreign vendors.

I have a degree in electrical engineering and spent many years working with electronics. It is not always easy to distinguish qaulity just by looking at the circuit board, but some conclusions can be made. And so far the lights seem to be decent.

Look, I didn't really want to discuss other products in your vendor thread and this is why I'm here, where people discuss cheap lights. I know there are trade-off, they've been mentioned many times here.

The Denali lights are made in South Korea.

If you would like to test a set of the cheap Chinese lights send them here to my attention and I will be happy to run the Lux test, publish honest results and return them to you. If you are in the Northeast - come on up and see us. We can do it together.

Kevin

I have done some side by side testing of various LED, HID and other lights for motorcycles.

That statement above is what makes one vendor a step above others, I hope he takes you up on the offer and you get to do the test and share the results.

Kevin, this is a generous offer, but I'm not sure that comparing the light output is a straightforward task. In your earlier post you stated that 1 Lux distance for R1200GS low lbeam was 88 feet and for high beam it was 153. feet. in that bike both high and low lights use exactly the same H7 bulbs and their light output is the same, but the light distribution is different and it explains the readings. The Chinese light i have has a reflector for a long and narrow "pencil" beam. Your lights are equipped with a diffuser that spreads the light around. Both Cree XM-L and Seoul Semiconductor Z7 10Watt LEDs have roughly the same output. The focused beam of the Chinese light will illuminate further, but at the expense of the area coverage. Proper evaluation of lightning performance requires a proper lab setup and test equipment, otherwise the numbers are meaningless. Electrical characteristics are easier to interpret and they are what I go by.

Thank you for the explanation. I have independent lab (simplified) results posted on the product page if you would like to look at them. I can locate the full results if you would like to look at them as well. Twisted Throttle will not be spending money to have competitors lights tested. We have built our business on the idea that the best way to sell a product is not to speak badly of the competitors goods. I think I am close to that line right now and will not be participating in a public debate.

We could keep this dance going for months. I am certain that the Denali light is far superior to the knockoffs and you're convinced otherwise. We will never find common ground on this. I wish you the best.

Kevin

I think you don't spend enough time riding. If you're happy with your chinese lights, hit the road and enjoy. If your point is that these vendors are ripping us off, then make the point. For me, the lighting characteristics of lights are easy to interpret and are what I go by. And how durable under harsh conditions those lighting characteristics are is also what I go by.

Guys, look back at the thread title. Gene was simply saying that he found what he thinks are good lights that resemble other people's lights for a good price. As the OP I never intended to bash anyone's lights, I was just looking for an inexpensive solution (which I found) to getting some decent light down the road.

Let's not take this off into a thread about price over quality by vendors and people looking to make vendors look bad. That was not the intent.

Maoule, Gene rides, and he rides a lot. He is also very intelligent. Though it is not obvious here, he is not from the US, so he might come across a little differently than some of us, though it looked like he wasn't being intentionally slanderous to me.

As I mentioned, I have seen the lights Gene is looking at, and we put them literally side-by-side with some Solstice, or Denali lights, I can't remember which, and they were virtually identical on the outside. That is what got this going last Saturday at my tech day.

Anyhow, let's all just try to stay calm and carry on. This thread has some very good information in it, and I think Gene and Kevin, and the other vendor(s) carried themselves with dignity and put up very good points.

Jim