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Old 05-04-2006, 12:25 PM   #1
sailah OP
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Valve job tips?

Thanks to the knowledge here, I am about to undertake the valves on the 950 for the first time. I read the valve threads over many times and have printed out copies for reference. I have purchased the locking bolt, have the time and inclination. Monday is the day w/ tues as a backup.

I have become proficient at undressing the old girl, just have a few questions before I begin. I will be assembling a photo shoot after I have completed the job for those to follow.
  • Can I do both heads at once? My shim source is over an hour away, they will do exchanges, however if an out of spec valve will work on the other head, that would save time and money. Sorry if this is a basic question, first timer. When I say at once, I realize the motor will need to be set at TDC for each cyl. Yay or nay?
  • I'm planning on the magnet shim/bucket trick.
  • I have lapping tools if shims are slightly out.
  • Any other tips and suggestions before I get underway?
Wish me luck.
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:54 PM   #2
Wayne Weber
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Good luck!

And, you can't do them exactly at the same time but the minor work involved in checking to see if you can re-use shims on the other head isn't that bad. Other wise you are on track and ready to go!
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:06 PM   #3
sailah OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Weber
And, you can't do them exactly at the same time but the minor work involved in checking to see if you can re-use shims on the other head isn't that bad.
Care to elaborate? I'm worried about the timing gear getting all frigged up. I have no trepidation about the job, just want to know what to do.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:57 PM   #4
BigDogAdventures
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Forget about buying shims

Forget about buying shims----why you ask ????

You can use the old ones and sand them down with something gritty--I started with a diamond knife sharpener---but ended up ending with a very fine stone on my grinder. You can pretty much bet all will need to be thinner.

The advantages ??
1. You won't have to go anywhere to get the ones you need.
2 If you bought new ones--you may find there not just right and have to go back for more--and you can't adjust the clearances exactly the way you want---you can just get close.
3. No cost to you.
4. You can get the clearances exactly what you want---------I always go to the maximum clearance recommendation so as to prolong further valve clearance checkings or adjustments.

I simply measure the clearance---figured out how much thinner a shim I needed----took the old one out---measure it with a caliper and sanded it down to the thickness needed--checking with the caliper---put the shims back in------everything was perfect------perfect is adequate !!!!

The cams don't rub the shims---you are not degrading the metal of the shim.

Take your time---it's an all day job.

If you get frustrated----quit--take a break--come back the next day if necessary.

Drop a part down the motor ??? slit your throat with one of those Rambo knives.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:10 PM   #5
sailah OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogAdventures.com
Forget about buying shims----why you ask ????

You can use the old ones and sand them down with something gritty--I started with a diamond knife sharpener---but ended up ending with a very fine stone on my grinder. You can pretty much bet all will need to be thinner.

The advantages ??
1. You won't have to go anywhere to get the ones you need.
2 If you bought new ones--you may find there not just right and have to go back for more--and you can't adjust the clearances exactly the way you want---you can just get close.
3. No cost to you.
4. You can get the clearances exactly what you want---------I always go to the maximum clearance recommendation so as to prolong further valve clearance checkings or adjustments.

I simply measure the clearance---figured out how much thinner a shim I needed----took the old one out---measure it with a caliper and sanded it down to the thickness needed--checking with the caliper---put the shims back in------everything was perfect------perfect is adequate !!!!

The cams don't rub the shims---you are not degrading the metal of the shim.

Take your time---it's an all day job.

If you get frustrated----quit--take a break--come back the next day if necessary.

Drop a part down the motor ??? slit your throat with one of those Rambo knives.
Mark,

Thanks. I plan on reusing shims to correct other valves. A musical chairs of shims if you will. It would be great if I could have them all out at the same time, mic 'em, and swap around until I got it all right. What are the chances I can reuse every single one??? Slim as a shim methinks.

I plan on reusing as many as possible and swap out those I can't find a home for. My point in the original post was to find out if I need to put the front head back together before tackling the rear i.e open up 4 new possible canidates for musical shims.

EDIT: Just reread your post. Likely that all shims will be thinner? Can I get a comeback on that? That would be good news. I have float glass and honing compunds for my Japanese chisels if I get really anal.



Oh, and I prefer a 12" Nailcutter blade in the Sawzall. That jagged wound seems to get the job done faster. Plus chicks dig scars.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:42 PM   #6
BigDogAdventures
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Shims

You can forget about swapping around shims and getting the results you want. It just won't happen.

Just do one head at a time----get the old shims down to where they need to be---you don't want to be turning the motor with one head apart.
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Old 05-04-2006, 02:57 PM   #7
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Do you have the bolt to hold the cylinders at TDC? This is the one that screws in under the water pump? It really is necessary. You can make one your self. Also do you have the Workshop Manual downloaded from this site?

You can do both at once. You could just replace the rockers without the shims, or just turn it. A screwdriver through the spark plug hole is good enough for TDC. This is where the bolt really helps.

I would advise you to remove the radiator for this job and don't forget to re torque the head. You need a special tool for this also as there is a hard to get at nut. These tools are not expensive as there is not much to them so they may be easier to buy than to make. Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2007, 05:14 AM   #8
grom
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I’ve just adjusted valves (actually they were almost OK after 25000km).
I would like to add here a trick that I found for myself, and it was confirmed by two of my friends (mechanics), but I’ve never read about that in manuals.
So, after you have changed/sanded shims and re-torqued cam bridge, rotate engine a couple of turns. This will give you much more correct clearence numbers.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:00 PM   #9
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AAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH!!!



I took a picture of the cam positions before removal rather than marking them, primarily because I didn't have a reliable way of marking them, but also because there's no reason referring to the picture wouldn't guarantee getting them back in the same position.

Long story . . . pic got blitzed.

Is there a way to guarantee the cams are back in the correct position? I've got them where the lobes are oriented exactly 180o from each other, pointed "out," per the manual pages posted here, but I'm not quite positive that's where they were.

Anyone?
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:09 PM   #10
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Just make sure you are at top dead center on the compression stroke for the cylinder you are doing, then check that the marks on the cams line up as it says in the manual. If you need the manual, PM me and I'll let you borrow mine to get your bike running.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
Just make sure you are at top dead center on the compression stroke for the cylinder you are doing, then check that the marks on the cams line up as it says in the manual. If you need the manual, PM me and I'll let you borrow mine to get your bike running.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
As shown in the 2nd illustration here?

I had it at TDC on compression for disassembly. If I locate the cams that way, both lobes are pointed well down. Can that be right?
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:56 PM   #12
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Crisis averted!


All hail the Doctor of Orange!
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:09 AM   #13
DockingPilot
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The cam marks line up with the edge of the case as the manual says. Tke CP's advise and get the manual. It's very simple, you'll have to try to fook it up.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:25 PM   #14
Wayne Weber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathead
AAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH!!!




Anyone?
The FRONT cams have a circle on the gear (really, a dot) and with the dot aligned with the valve cover gasket surface, the cams will point out at TDC, ref: page 6-20 of the shop manual

The REAR cams have a cross mark to align with the surface, and will point IN at TDC. Make sure you set each cylinder at TDC before setting each cam. The rear cams won't point exactly to the center, they'll point up a little. The cross is the important mark. ref page 6-16 of the manual.

Note that the marks don't exactly perfectly align with the flat surface, they will be just above if I remember.

Does that help? let me know!
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:23 PM   #15
Seth S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathead
AAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH!!!



I took a picture of the cam positions before removal rather than marking them, primarily because I didn't have a reliable way of marking them, but also because there's no reason referring to the picture wouldn't guarantee getting them back in the same position.

Long story . . . pic got blitzed.

Is there a way to guarantee the cams are back in the correct position? I've got them where the lobes are oriented exactly 180o from each other, pointed "out," per the manual pages posted here, but I'm not quite positive that's where they were.

Anyone?

You need to get a copy of the manual. You will be safest by just setting each cylinder at top dead center and putting the cams back in. I think there is another set of marks you can go by to line up the cylinder. I always just mark the cams and am super careful about it.
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