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Old 09-29-2006, 04:25 PM   #1
laramie LC4 OP
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Aaarrrrgggg!!! damn base gaskets....

well, i've been kinda dragging my feet the last 2 days with replacing my base gasket due to me freaking about other issues (should i replace the rings? what about the cam bearing? ......) but decided to take a look at it again this afternoon to decide which one of the 3 base gaskets i'm going to use.

well, you would think it would be easy but, each one has some issues that make me want to rip my hair out!!!!

lets start with the Cometic gaskets.

the Cometic gasket, although made of very nice material, doesn't fit for SH--!!! there are gaps the entire way around the cylinder and especially around the timing chain slot. to say the least i'm a little upset about the "high" quality of this gasket. you'd think they would at least make it fit right....

this one show the area around the cylinder and timing chain.



and here is a closer one of the timing chain area.



now for the OEM gaskets from KTM.

lets start with the metal one, part number 58630035200.

this one must be for the 625 or newer LC4's, because it doesn't fit either. well, let me clarify that, the gasket fits well, but doesn't have the proper holes for the metal dowels that hold the cylinder into the cases.



this is the one that i had planned on using but now obviously i cant unless i modify it myself. has anyone ever had luck with doing something like this? can i just take a drill bit that is the right size and punch out those holes to match? or am i just inviting more doom and gloom?

now for the paper OEM, part number 58030030100.

actually, the only bad thing i have to say about this one is the fact that it is paper!!! it has the best fit of all of them and looks to be of MUCH better quality than the OEM green gasket that i had put in last time. remember this one is listed at 0.7mm, which is just a little thicker than the green which is 0.5mm



so, what do i do here guys? what would you do?

i cant believe that i have 3 different gaskets and not a one of them is what i need and want!!! typical KTM for ya.....

i'm going to drink a beer and think about my options, maybe ill just set it on fire and push it into my landlords house and claim it was an accident. he's on my SH-- list anyways and it would at least make me smile....

laters,

laramie
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:33 PM   #2
christian
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can you push it in my back yard with all the parts and title in a box ?
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Old 09-29-2006, 05:11 PM   #3
Cogswell
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I would use the cometic gasket in the first picture with a very thin coating of hondabond (the grey colored case sealer) on it. It will help seal in the thin area, and is not prone to leaking at all if used properly.

Mike
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:30 PM   #4
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Oh, and I ain't got a clue which one to use...
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:32 PM   #5
Cactus Dave
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The paper is the easiest and the reduction in compression will be negligible. However, if your confident of your ability to modify, I'd use the metal KTM gasket and carefully drill out and then trim with a rat tail file the locater holes. Be sure to put a wood block behind the gasket, and I'd put a wood block with a pilot hole of the proper size on top and clamp the blocks together with the gasket in between. The gasket may have a tendency to grab the flutes on the bit and ride up the bit while your drilling thereby effectively bending and ruining the gasket (wanna know how I know this?). Clamping the wood blocks stabilizes the metal gasket. The Cometic gasket is probably the best quality - they do make good stuff - but you're asking for a leak with the mismatched surfaces. Maybe not, but you won't know 'till you try, and it leaks. While the Hondabond or Yamabond or high temp silicone sealers work well (I use 'em in lieu of gaskets), they are not intended to fill the large gaps created by the Cometic mismatch. And by the time you goop that much on, you're asking for a lot to ooze into the cam chain tunnel and ultimately find its way into your oiling system thereby probably plugging something (wanna know how I know that as well?). Smart thing taking a break to contemplate over a beer. Good luck.
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Old 09-30-2006, 09:12 AM   #6
laramie LC4 OP
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Bluhduh

after speaking with a few other guys who have use the Cometic gasket i guess i got a bad one. figures huh? anyways, i guess ill contact cometic on monday and send them the pics and ask them to either refund my money or send me a new gasket. hopefully they wont give me any shit cause im not in the mood....

ill keep you posted.

laters,

laramie :cheers:
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:09 AM   #7
laramie LC4 OP
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spoke to Cometic gasket company this morning and they were very helpful, no shit what so ever. i sent them the photo's of the gasket along with an explanation of what i thought was wrong with it. they called me back within a short time and said that they agreed and that they had a different base gasket that might be better. it is supposedly for "older" lc4's but he said that it would match up to my cylinder. hopefully this one will work. ill post some pics and a part number when i get it.

laters,

laramie
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:57 PM   #8
laramie LC4 OP
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you guys ever get the feeling that things just weren't ment to be....??????



just got my gasket from Cometic and guess what ?????

come on, take a wild guess......




















IT DONT FIT !!!!!!!!!!!

it is the EXACT SAME as the newer, OEM Metal gasket. so im going to go out on a limb and say that ktm outsources their gasket making to Cometic now a days.

so now im back at step one again. do i dare try and use the other Cometic gasket that doesnt have very good coverage ? or do i try and modify one of these new ones to make it work ? i guess since i now have 2 of them i can afford to make at least 1 mistake.....

if i wasnt still needing other parts (rings and cam bearing) id would be extremely pissed off !!!!!

im starting to get the same feeling i had with my ex-wife....maybe its just time to part ways.

laters,

laramie
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Old 10-06-2006, 08:08 PM   #9
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Just thinking out loud as it were but ...

Seems there have been several issues with base gaskets lately. I was trying to figure out any possible causes because I don't think there should be enough pressure in the cylinder base (crankcase) to blow gaskets. Is there a restriction in the vent? Hose kinked? Is the filter in the vent line partially plugged?

I am sure you have checked all that, but it still seems that there might be some reason that the crankcase pressure is building up. Let me know if you find something would you please?

Another way to cut holes in a gasket (will work on metal too, just a little harder) is to put the gasket in place and tap around the edge of the hole with the peen end of a ball-peen hammer. You wouldn't want to do this on your cylinder, but could use any piece of metal with the proper sized (sharp edged) hole. (drill a hole in a piece of scrap?)

Good luck on the next gasket!
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:45 AM   #10
meat popsicle
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Laramie,

Have you looked at these P/N? Just came across this auction.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:35 PM   #11
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Enlarging the holes

I've made my own gaskets in the past (no, not base gaskets ) and I used bullet shells to make the holes. My father-in-law gave me a selection of shells of different sizes. Place the gasket on a piece of wood and pound the shell with a hammer. It cuts a nice clean hole.
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beez
I've made my own gaskets in the past (no, not base gaskets ) and I used bullet shells to make the holes. My father-in-law gave me a selection of shells of different sizes. Place the gasket on a piece of wood and pound the shell with a hammer. It cuts a nice clean hole.

A guy from Kalifornia who now lives in Massaschusetts using shell casings to work on his dirt bike.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:20 PM   #13
laramie LC4 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Laramie,

Have you looked at these P/N? Just came across this auction.
thanks meat but that has the older, green 0.5 mm base gasket. you can see it in the pic. that gasket set is what you get if you order a complete engine rebuild set. it comes with everything, gaskets, crush washers, everything..... i got one of those for when i rebuild my engine the last time.

laramie :cheers:
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:11 PM   #14
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Some further information...

Thanks Laramie, I read this with interest before tackling my own base gasket leak. Well, err, the bike's one See Fixing the 640 base gasket, and more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by laramie LC4
lets start with the metal one, part number 58630035200.

this one must be for the 625 or newer LC4's, because it doesnt fit either. well, let me clarify that, the gasket fits well, but doesnt have the proper holes for the metal dowels that hold the cylinder into the cases.
Okay, my bike is a 2005 Adventure (EU/AU). As you can see from the picture, it has small base dowels:



Here's the cylinder base, showing the stain from the OEM paper gasket - Part num *586.30.035.100, CYL. BASE GASKET 0,5MM 05 - including the area that split then leaked (circled).



And finally, here's the superseding metal base gasket - Part num 586.30.035.200 CYL. BASE GASKET 0,5MM M.SICKE - overlaid on the cylinder base. Pretty good match for a newer bike. This gasket has a "made in USA" sticker on the package, so is probably the Cometic gasket.



The KTM repair manual advises putting sealant around the camchain tunnel area.

Mine failed because the paper gasket walked out of the join, and split. Can't tell which order those two things happened! But I guess the metal gasket won't suffer the same type of failure.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:15 PM   #15
laramie LC4 OP
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looking at the pics i would agree, that is a Cometic gasket. i wish i could get one to fit correctly because my paper one is already leaking again. next time i think the surfaces are going to have to be re-done to match them back up. this is frankly just ridiculous to have to replace such a basic, fundamental gasket so often. granted all it really does is make a mess and looks really bad. the oil loss is nominal and if you check often, isnt really a big deal. im just one of those people though that hate leaks. i think the only reason i havent torn it back apart again is that im sick and tired of dealing with it. its cheaper and easier for me to just wash the bike and pretend nothing is wrong.......

good luck with yours.

laramie
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