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Old 04-08-2002, 07:56 AM   #1
Ken OP
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MSF-ERC

I just completed the MSF Experienced Rider Course, this past weekend. 4 classroom hours Friday night and 4 hours riding on the range Saturday morning. 12 guys, 6 Harleys, 1 Goldwing, 1 Kawaski crusier, 1 BMW RT, 1 BMW LT, 1 BMW 650 and my GS. Both instructors rode BMW's... an old K and a RT. I was the youngest student at 41.
Everyone learned something, everyone thought the course was definitely worth taking... that's 12 out of 12.
Having someone critique you you while your riding is a good thing... that's where I think everyone learned the most and the little things that they were doing wrong.
I did have a problem with the instructor's attitude about wearing safety gear. The head one laughted and said you don't dress for the crash... you dress for the ride. He suggested long t-shirt, jeans, DOT helmet, sunglasses and gloves. That was the only problem I had but I think it is a big one...
All in all I would highly recommend anyone and everyone to take the course... IMHO!
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:19 AM   #2
seh750
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Re: MSF-ERC

Quote:
Originally posted by ken35216
I did have a problem with the instructor's attitude about wearing safety gear. The head one laughted and said you don't dress for the crash... you dress for the ride. He suggested long t-shirt, jeans, DOT helmet, sunglasses and gloves. That was the only problem I had but I think it is a big one...
All in all I would highly recommend anyone and everyone to take the course... IMHO!
You should dress for the crash even while taking the ERC! Years ago as a fairly new rider I made a mistake and crashed during the ERC and ended up in the emergency room having road rash cleaned out of my knee. Still have a scar from that one...
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:21 AM   #3
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Re: MSF-ERC

Quote:
Originally posted by ken35216
II did have a problem with the instructor's attitude about wearing safety gear. The head one laughted and said you don't dress for the crash... you dress for the ride. He suggested long t-shirt, jeans, DOT helmet, sunglasses and gloves. That was the only problem I had but I think it is a big one...
All in all I would highly recommend anyone and everyone to take the course... IMHO!
Hi Ken
I don't know the instructors but I can tell you that MSF is very clear about protective gear. Quality protective gear to protect you in case of an accident on the road is taught by all of us I know who teach in MSF.

Regarding the issue of gear on the street and gear for the class. MFS is satisfied with minimal gear for class ie: long pants, long shirt, solid shoes that cover the ankle, DOT helmet, full fingered gloves, eye protection. This has a lot to do with what students may or may not have available to them in the way of gear. The classroom sessions clearly teach what is proper protective gear for the road.

With all that said, all the instructors I teach with teach in minimal gear! We are doing so all day in a parking lot. We do not wear our leather pants or jackets but do wear long sleeved shirts and long pants, etc. Many of us use 3/4 helmets or flip up helmets in the up position when we demo. we do not ride like this on the street.

I must believe the instructor’s statement was taken out of context regarding dressing for the ride not the fall. If not, I do hope you wrote your comments on the evaluation form you were asked to fill out at the end of class. In california every written evaluation by the students in the MSF/CMSP program is read at the State level!!!!

I am glad you got something out of the class.
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:53 AM   #4
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Re: Re: MSF-ERC

Quote:
Originally posted by Rad
I must believe the instructor’s statement was taken out of context regarding dressing for the ride not the fall. If not, I do hope you wrote your comments on the evaluation form you were asked to fill out at the end of class.
I was kind of shocked but his comments were not taken out of context... the instructor stated that he rides in long t-shirts and jeans in the summertime... "I'll peel out of my protective gear as the day gets hotter... haha your ride for the ride not the crash... haha" I thought about making a comment but didn't...

If I were the instructor I would have made it a point to give the Harley riders shit about not wearing enough protective gear and buying into the "Harley fashion" rather than functional protective gear!
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:53 AM   #5
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I certainly understand the reasoning for 3/4 helmets or flip-ups, but never forget, the student will always do what you do. I was an instructor for several years (not MSF) and everytime I screwed up a demo, at least one of my students (in a class of 20 or so) would screw up the same way I had. Training them to do it right was almost always a challenge, but training someone to do a task wrong was a piece of cake.

"What I hear, I forget.
What I see, I remember,
what I do, I understand."

That advanced course sounds interesting though. I took the basic years ago, is there a prerequisite for the ADVanced course?
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Old 04-08-2002, 09:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Will
That advanced course sounds interesting though. I took the basic years ago, is there a prerequisite for the ADVanced course?
I think it was at least 6 months riding and 1,000 miles.
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Old 04-08-2002, 09:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Will
I certainly understand the reasoning for 3/4 helmets or flip-ups, but never forget, the student will always do what you do. "What I hear, I forget.
What I see, I remember,
what I do, I understand."
I do agree with your statement. It is a good point. I do let the students know what I ride in on the street and they see my full protective gear on my bike.

Here is the big but!......but, there is no way I could teach for 12 to 14 hours a day in a parking lot in full protective gear on those 80 to 100 degree days.

I will make more of a point to explain that to the students on the range prior to the start of the day.
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Old 04-08-2002, 10:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Here is the big but!......but, there is no way I could teach for 12 to 14 hours a day in a parking lot in full protective gear on those 80 to 100 degree days.
I agree with you on this... I only wore jeans and a long t-shirt. We never went over 20mph.
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rad

I do let the students know what I ride in on the street and they see my full protective gear on my bike.

......but, there is no way I could teach for 12 to 14 hours a day in a parking lot in full protective gear on those 80 to 100 degree days.

I will make more of a point to explain that to the students on the range prior to the
start of the day.
Works for me. Even at 75 degrees.

I've had good success showing a piece or two of riding gear that's seen action on the road.
Without getting into the "show and tell" trap, it makes a quick point.
I always have my actual riding helmet with me to show the students; but I wear a 3/4 "Range" helmet.
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:57 PM   #10
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I used to give Experienced Rider Course.
I do let the students know what I ride in on the street and they see my full protective gear ON ME.
......AND I teach for 10 hours a day in a parking lot in full protective gear on those 80 to 100 degree days.
Students without full gear are being sent home.
Any one says to ride without full gear doesnt know much about riding and shouldnt be allowed to teach ERC.
IMHO
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Old 04-08-2002, 07:16 PM   #11
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FWIW...Again, this year, the Idaho BMW riders club is going to arrange an ERC for members only. The state will provide the instructor and range for a standard ERC session. We pay the standard fee. A nice way to spend a Saturday with people you ride with all the time and who you WANT to be safe.
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:21 PM   #12
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Re: Question for all you ERC instructors...

Quote:
Originally posted by Razorbak

Any particular highlights that I should be looking forward to?
Keep an open mind cause you will change some driving habits and "KEEP YOU HEAD UP!!! LOOK WHERE YOUR TURNING!!! SWERVE THEN BRAKE... DUMBASS!!! "
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Old 04-08-2002, 10:21 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Question for all you ERC instructors...

Quote:
Originally posted by ken35216
SWERVE THEN BRAKE...
Very important words here. "THEN" rather than "AND". I tried swerving AND braking in the ERC. Ended up with a permanent scar and a severly trashed 96 VFR (brand new at the time).
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Old 04-09-2002, 07:40 AM   #14
Ken OP
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Hough's Proficient Motorcycling

This is IMHO the best/must read book on motorcycling.
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Old 04-09-2002, 09:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Everyone learned something, everyone thought the course was diffidently worth taking
Uh... "diffidently"?

From Webster's: Diffident 1. Distrustful 2. hesitant in speaking or acting through lack of self-confidence 3. Reserved, Unassertive.

Thanks, though, for the comments on the class. I took my basic class *after* I bought the R80 but *before* I went out on the road with it. Nearly busted a nut waiting for the class, but a promise to your wife is a promise you had better keep.
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