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Old 01-08-2009, 08:43 AM   #1
themansfield OP
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XR650R electricity

Long time listener, first time caller. Just purchased a 2003 XR650R for adventure transformation and electronics are next on the list. I've read a good number of posts about stator upgrades but haven't found answers to a couple specific questions.

Bike came with standard cheezy dual sport conversion kit, using stock stator with addition of battery. Can I install a high output stator (of rewind it myself) that outputs only AC and ditch the DC battery setup? I don't mind that lights and signals and cooling fan won't work unless the bike is on. Or do I need DC circuitry to run components like GPS and cooling fan?

So, if it's better to install a stator that does both DC and AC (2x100w or something), do I need to get higher-rated recifiers/regulators? Would a high output stator burn up the stock AC reg and the lame dual sport DC stuff? How about al the bulbs in the signals and tail light?

What kind of high output stator would be best? Some specify things like 2x100w or 2x125w and some only spec. 250w. It seems that some are designed to give separate DC and AC output, but others (including a home rewind) only beef up the existing stock AC output....?


Can somebody learn me what is a good setup for me? I'd like to use a better bulb in the headlight for some decent seeing capabilities, run the KTM cooling fan kit, and have the option for a GPS. I already have a trip computer that is internal battery powered.

Thanks.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:07 AM   #2
kjazz
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I too just bought a 2003 XR650R. It already has a Moose hi-output stator and Dakar head light with blinkers etc. I'm told the battery must be fully charged for the blinkers to work correctly (even when running) ?! huh?

I'll lurk on your thread. It seems we'll be asking the very same questions.

Best,
Kerry
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:47 PM   #3
Luke
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All stators output AC. DC regulators contain circuitry to convert the AC to DC. DC regulators require some sort of energy storage device to work properly. This can be either a battery or a capacitor. Trailtech.net sells both.


Blinkers, fans, horns and GPSs require DC. If you use a capacitor instead of a battery then they won't work when the motor is stopped.

Some of the aftermarket stators use two outputs so that there is less stress on the regulators. They suggest running one stator coil to a DC system so that you can have blinkers, etc. They suggest the other coil go to an AC system because that is more power efficient and requires fewer parts.


The simplest setup for you would be a stator with a single winding driving a DC system. This is what I have. The regulator is the common Tympanium unit sold by Baja Designs, and it uses a capacitor for storage. This is with a home-wound stator. If you buy a stator, I would use whatever regulator(s) the mfg recommends. Power ratings on stators don't tell you much unless you are comparing ratings from the same manufacturer.

For a multi-winding system, it would make the most sense to run a headlight off one winding with an AC regulator and everything else off the other winding with a DC regulator.





kjazz;
If your blinkers don't work with a flat battery replace the flasher unit with a better one. I have a $5 electronic (not thermal) flasher from Kragen that replaces the one from a DS kit, and it works fine below 10 volts.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:27 PM   #4
XRider
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I've put quite a few big stators in XRs and this is the setup I like best and that has been the most durable.

First I start with a Baja Designs 250w (125w x2) rewound stator. It is the highest output that I've found and in my opinion nobody does it better. This is a dual output stator so I run one output to a B.D. regulator/rectifier (reg/rect is rated at 160w) giving me 125w DC. Here in California to be street legal you have to be able to run your tail light for 20 minutes with the motor off. So I run the DSK and the bike from the DC side, the CDI gets it's power from a third coil on the stator so it's not a factor when calculating the load. The bike, the battery, the blinkers, and tail/stop light take about 30w. I replace the 35w headlight with a 55/60w halogen which means there is 35-40w DC left for heated grips, GPS, iPod, etc.

The second 125w output from the stator I run through an AC regulator (the stock Honda unit will work just fine) and use it to power two 55w halogen projector beam off road lights that I mount up front on a light bar. Ricky Stator makes an excellent product however with only 100w per side you can't run two 55w halogens and the majority of after market halogen lights are 55w. I use an automotive style relay wired so that the off road lights go on when the high beam is switched on. 170w of light make the darkest mountain road or trail on a moonless night a piece of cake.

HID lights (the very best) offer twice as much light from half as much power at about 10x the cost of halogens. If you go with HID you will need an all DC system.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:24 PM   #5
themansfield OP
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I'm in CA, also, so I suppose I ought to be sure about the tail light deal.

Since my horn, tail light, signals, and horn all work now with the bike not running, it follows that the dual sport kit runs strictly on DC, right? Meaning that the AC from the stator is all being converted to DC, except for a split that goes into the stock AC regulator and then to the CDI?

It looks like I could get the BD 2x125w stator and BD DC regulator and successfully beef up the wattage as it is all wired up now. Then I'd also have 125w of AC when the bike was running to run the accessories.

Still a little confused about where the CDI gets its power and how that is affected by stator upgrade.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:26 PM   #6
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If you remove the stator from your bike (and it's an XR650R)what you would see looks a little like a waggon wheel with 12 spokes. On the stock unit two of the spokes have windings that are connected to a brown wire and a black wire with a red stripe, those two windings make the (AC) power for the ingnition and the black/red and the brown wire connect straight to the CDI box. In addition to the first 2 there are 4 other spokes with windings that provide power for everything else. These four windings are connected to a green wire and a white wire with a yellow stripe. On your bike these two wires bring AC power to the 2 yellow wires from the regulator/rectifier. The reg/rect converts the AC into 12 volts DC which comes out the black and red wires. The battery and all the lighting power for your bike comes from the black and red wires. The six remaining spokes on the stock stator have no windings at all. When they rewind your stator the coils added to 5 of the empty spokes become the second 125w power source and are connected to 2 white wires that are added to accomodate this. This is one of the ways you can tell if your XR has a rewound stator. A stock stator will have 4 wires comming out of the case (brn, blk/red, grn, wht/yel), a rewound stator will have 6 wires exiting the case (4 plus the 2 white wires).

Even though the stock AC regulator is still bolted to the frame, on most dual sport conversions (with a stock stator) it is not connected to anything.

I know I went on a bit but I hope I was able to make this clear. Also, I don't know what part of California you live in but I'm in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley) and I'll help you out with your wireing if your local. I can also email you any schematics you might need for your XR, stator, or DSK. Just PM me and I'll set you up.
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XRider screwed with this post 01-08-2009 at 07:51 PM
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:22 PM   #7
river251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRider
I've put quite a few big stators in XRs and this is the setup I like best and that has been the most durable.

First I start with a Baja Designs 250w (125w x2) rewound stator. It is the highest output that I've found and in my opinion nobody does it better. This is a dual output stator so I run one output to a B.D. regulator/rectifier (reg/rect is rated at 160w) giving me 125w DC. Here in California to be street legal you have to be able to run your tail light for 20 minutes with the motor off. So I run the DSK and the bike from the DC side, the CDI gets it's power from a third coil on the stator so it's not a factor when calculating the load. The bike, the battery, the blinkers, and tail/stop light take about 30w. I replace the 35w headlight with a 55/60w halogen which means there is 35-40w DC left for heated grips, GPS, iPod, etc.

The second 125w output from the stator I run through an AC regulator (the stock Honda unit will work just fine) and use it to power two 55w halogen projector beam off road lights that I mount up front on a light bar. Ricky Stator makes an excellent product however with only 100w per side you can't run two 55w halogens and the majority of after market halogen lights are 55w. I use an automotive style relay wired so that the off road lights go on when the high beam is switched on. 170w of light make the darkest mountain road or trail on a moonless night a piece of cake.

HID lights (the very best) offer twice as much light from half as much power at about 10x the cost of halogens. If you go with HID you will need an all DC system.
I'm working with BD on a system for my R. They tell me rectifying AC to DC costs amps (and wattage). You don't include that so I am wondering if it's only a negligible amount (didn't ask BD that). Also, you run the CDI off a third coil. I didn't know the BD has a third coil?

Thanks....
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by river251
I'm working with BD on a system for my R. They tell me rectifying AC to DC costs amps (and wattage). You don't include that so I am wondering if it's only a negligible amount (didn't ask BD that). Also, you run the CDI off a third coil. I didn't know the BD has a third coil?

Thanks....
You're right, the conversion of AC to DC is not 100% efficient. That's why I never try to pull the full 125 watts from the stator. I don't do it on the AC side ether. The stator only makes 250 watts at or above 4500 RPM. So in order to keep the lights from going real dim at idle I try to keep the load at around 85% of max output.

Your stator has a third coil to power the CDI. It's actually already on there before BD rewinds it. If you look at your re-wound stator you'll notice 2 windings that look differant from the rest, that's your ignition power.
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #9
trackhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
All stators output AC. DC regulators contain circuitry to convert the AC to DC. DC regulators require some sort of energy storage device to work properly. This can be either a battery or a capacitor. Trailtech.net sells both.
So the power to the coil does not need a capacitor or battery, but the power to the ligths, etc does?

Thanks, great thread.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:21 PM   #10
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Track, the coil acts as a capacitor.

Odd, Hoping to have the first batch of harnesses ready by the end of the month, I'm waiting for the bullet connectors to arrive and still working out the details for a small power block with a relay to activate it so it won't burn out switches. As I said I only want to run top quality components in this so if it takes me a little longer to get it right so be it. I'll keep you updated on this thread for how progress is going.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:05 PM   #11
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Might requrie a revisit...

me thinks capacitor is defined by its capacity to store energy, a coil has no such capability. A coil can be used enhance (step up or down but that is another story) the level of voltage--at the expense of current flow--which is what it does in an ignition system. Using a capacitor or battery tends to smooth the rectified AC to a more constant DC level--something a coil cannot accomplish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrtrippin
Track, the coil acts as a capacitor.

Odd, Hoping to have the first batch of harnesses ready by the end of the month, I'm waiting for the bullet connectors to arrive and still working out the details for a small power block with a relay to activate it so it won't burn out switches. As I said I only want to run top quality components in this so if it takes me a little longer to get it right so be it. I'll keep you updated on this thread for how progress is going.

AKASY screwed with this post 01-03-2010 at 10:01 PM
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:43 PM   #12
XRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrtrippin
Track, the coil acts as a capacitor.

Odd, Hoping to have the first batch of harnesses ready by the end of the month, I'm waiting for the bullet connectors to arrive and still working out the details for a small power block with a relay to activate it so it won't burn out switches. As I said I only want to run top quality components in this so if it takes me a little longer to get it right so be it. I'll keep you updated on this thread for how progress is going.
The coil does not act as a capacitor. The XR stator has 2 dedicated windings to power the ignition. The power is unregulated and unrectified (AC) and goes directly to the ICM (CDI box). I can send you both XR schematics and DSK schematics if you like. Just PM me your email address.
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead
So the power to the coil does not need a capacitor or battery, but the power to the ligths, etc does?

Thanks, great thread.
Correct. There's a capacitor (several, actually) built into the ignition module. It's the C in CDI.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:27 PM   #14
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:27 PM   #15
pwrtrippin
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I'm working on a DS wiring harness setup for my piggy, I had a fast made prototype I built last summer that worked well but after putting on bar risers and Raptor bars, some of the wires were a bit on the tight side so I figured it was time to redo it through the winter and make it bullet proof.

My Idea is to stick with the dual output set up so systems can be easily isolated and not interfere with each other. Headlight and taillight/ brake light will be on one system running AC. The DC system will run cooling fan, Acewell computer, turn signals and horn and will have an accessory jack (probably BMW style). DC side will also have a small battery pack, there will be a battery tender harness on this also.

I am thinking of building a few of these harnesses and also building a universal harness for other dirt bikes. I am sourcing plugs to try and make this as plug and play as possible, all wire colors will be color coodinated per system and all terminal ends will be factory style bullet connectors.

So the question I have for the other piggy riders is do you think I am missing anything in my harness as far as accessory outlets go, or is there anything you would like to see in a harness? I will be trying to keep my price below $250 for a first rate harness.

Feel free to throw your ideas my way.
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